seismo was and never was the GO TO option to “messiagh” your way through things. its more for trying to revert momentum back in your favor (with or without ultra) because believe it or not viper has some defensive issues when shes being pressured. dont tell that to the people who still cant fight her though 
did everyone forget that at evo tokido was using low strong in block strings for CH traps and os’ing dp at the same time so if latif did BK or ex seismo he’d get nailed? every time the cr.strong os came out latif did lk BK, most of the time when he went for ex seismo, tokido was able to block.
Well guys Im pretty sure we will be seeing the final changes this friday or next. Well I hope so. Im so freaking ready for these changes so I can know 100% what gouken will be working with! I google translated one of ONO’s Japanese tweets and I got this…
[LEFT]"“Reorganization of the AE information, right now, smoking is now Ayano together! [/LEFT][LEFT](Business communication is also included.) Web official before delivery, we are able to publish in the Blog. [/LEFT][LEFT]The wait.[/LEFT][LEFT]m (_ _) m”"[/LEFT]
[LEFT]I really think we are getting a blog this friday but we will see! the wait… lol[/LEFT]
If you know when to use EX Seismo it is a game changer. I am not saying it is your stereotypical reversal where you can throw it out when you don’t want to play defense. Rather if you know your opponent is going to go for something you can use it to completely change the game.
Also like I said it wasn’t limited to defense in this case. You can also use it as a tech punish on offense. Viper didn’t lack any way to land this on offense or defense.
i gotta start making this same “not brainless” argument for ex chicken wing
That nerf for EX seismo should have been in super.
I hope people like hp tk feints because you are going to be seeing a lot of them now.
I thought you could not cancel a HP Thunder knuckle??? I mean I don’t play viper so I would not know…
EDIT Im trying in training mode right now and I can’t do it. I can only cancel the Lp thunder knuckle. I can’t even cancel the MP one. Hmmmmm I had no idea about any of this lol.
you can cancel it.
but you dont get the same amount of inv frames from the ex version, and the cancel window is a lot smaller
a viper main can check me on that if im wrong
Of all the TKs, canceling the HP one is the hardest.
When I tried learning FFF, which wasn’t as hard as everyone says btw, I used HP feint, so it’s definitely possible.
From what I have heard HP feint gives you the best frame advantage, but is the most risky because if you screw it up you get a unsafe TK.
More Vipers will be doing HP feints on wakeup in v2012 not because of the frame advantage (it’s all relative to what the opponent does anyway) but because of the throw/hit invincibility. At the moment it isn’t used that often because it loses to empty jumps into grabs, or just normal meaty grabs. Raw HP feinting is the hardest but it’s quite easy to do in a cancel (eg. FFF).
About Viper…honestly…what makes her so good is that she hasn’t really been touched compared to other top tiers. Her damage and stun are still Vanilla level and her tools for the most part remain on that same power level. MarlinPie and I were discussing her after our fight at 8otb last night and I asked him for tips for my Sagat. Our matches went neck and neck each time, but you could see the difference in risk vs reward between our two chars options. I play Sagat, so of course his comeback potential ain’t nothing to scoff at, but her general damage output blows his away not to mention it’s much easier for her to create opportunities to get consistent high damage. If I’m in the corner well now I’m dealing with unblockables/semi-unblockables and then of course as was discussed earliar, there is EX Seismo.
The move is just damn good. Broken? Nah. But just a little too damn good. One bar for Ultra set-up, combo set-up, untech knockdown set-up, etc.
Anyway, Marlins response to my question was interesting. He just looked at me funny and said at this point it’s not even you. It’s just your character. (Sagat loses to Viper, tough shit for me that’s what you sign up for when you play Sagat or any char with a bad match-upshrug) He then also said compared to the nerfed top tiers, Viper is a broken character. She’s bullshit.
These are his words, not mine. I think it says something when you have a high level player acknowledging that yes their char may be too bullshit. I can see why he would say that, and although I disagree with him for some reasons, I def think she has qualities that…honestly don’t make any fucking sense from a design point of view.
Her risk:reward ratio IS bullshit. Amplified by her damage output. Her momentum busting factor is off the charts with BK & TK before we even get to jesus ground pound…
it really gets silly if you fight against her with a low health character.
at later points in the round if you dont hold your momentum, she can just start fishing with 101 safe ways to make 500dmg
So looking forward to this final change list! This will be my gamming highlight of this month along with Playing Skyrim and MW3 on an HD TV.
the best part about the people who dont play viper is that they say its so easy for her to create opportunities and that theres sooo many safe ways to do it. lol. thats too funny. especially when its a fei player.
she does a shitton of damage/stun no doubt. but, creating the opportunities to hit with them is not as easy as lol throw out a seismo or feint some shit and react and punisih. every character can pressure her and can beat her defensive options, as stellar as they may look, theyre all punishable. you just have to have a good meta game and know the player tendencies. also knowing what you can do against LK burn kick helps since most people dont even try to discourage viper players from doing it. her buttons are also awful sans cr.fp
You and illitirit are obviously biased because you actually know how to play Viper.
Time to disregard everything you say to bitch about ex seismo some more.
You mean difficult like landing a f.throw or connecting an ex seismo sonewhere during the round and then going for a totally ambiguous crossup that can lead to 400+ damage and 600+ stun with ONE bar? Yeah that’s difficult.
The only difficult thing about viper is getting the execution down. Even her wakeup isn’t half as bad as you guys are pretending it to be.
yeah no other character has setups off of forward throws! also, jump roundhouse RARELY crosses up. stop holding forward. if she walks enough to make it a crossup, then it isnt a safe jump. what happened to throws being too easy to tech? wasnt that a universal complaint (most) people shared about sf4 and complained about how easy it is to tech in this game? go back to 3s tech timing! what about crouch tech? throws are relatively easy to avoid. you should be more concerned about her fucking back throw with its range and BETTER setups. why should viper, an offensive character, not get some sort of momentum after landing a throw? akuma gets great setups after forward throw (theyre changing in 2012 yes but theyre still there), not 400 damage worthy but he also has many more tools than viper.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/507/notacrossup.png/
see that j.rh? gf in tourney on sunday. it WASNT a crossup.
her wake up is much worse than akumas. just saying. learn to os against BK or FP TK. if youre getting nailed by ex seismo on jumps, your jumping awfully shitty since its like 17 frames.