What do you mean nitpick? You can’t mash it. It’s as simple as that.
In any case, you’re overstating the effectiveness of EX Seismo in these situations. Even to just “throw it out”, you have to forego your blocking stance and the invincibility runs out before it reaches active frames, so it can be stuffed. With lk BK you’ll remain blocking and you can hop over lows, beat throws, and you’ll still be safe on block in most cases. And cases where it does get stuffed, you get reset instead of going into a grounded state where the opponent can hit-confirm into big damage.
I’m not saying EX Seismo is not a good move (it’s pretty godlike actually), but it’s not something that you can thoughtlessly spam under pressure.
It’s like you are saying you can’t mash srk when you have super otherwise your super will come out…I think everyone here understood what LoyalSol wanted to say…
It’s completely possible to mash DP and not get super (wiggle from DP to DF and don’t hit forward). The point is that saying EX Seismo is mashable is another way of overstating it’s use as a way to beat throws.
It is nitpicking because you are getting bent out of shape on terminology instead of the core issue which is VIPER CAN THROW THE BLASTED THING OUT IN PLACE OF A THROW TECH.
And please don’t underplay this. Every pro I have ever talked to has talked about this with regards to viper and every pro I have ever played against has tried to use it. Latif, Marn, Flash, etc. You name it, any viper player worth their salt will throw this out if they suspect a throw is coming. And why not? If you connect it is the Seismo damage plus Ultra or at the very least a sweep or burn kick. I haven’t met a single person who hasn’t told me “Viper with 1 bar is more scary than most characters are with 2”
Viper is one of the few characters where I have to know my ground OSes because otherwise I will eat some major damage.
Sure you can’t “mash it out” per say because yea you will get a feint. Then again when I try to SRK through someone’s strings I don’t mash either, I just quickly input the motion and go back to blocking. If I got it right the SRK comes out, if I didn’t take in any damage for trying.
That is the reason the seismo was nerfed. IMO I think Viper won’t lose much from it, but let’s be honest it was good for that reason. In the hands of a knowledgeable player it was dangerous.
It changes the way the viper player has to think in AE 2012 with throw being able to stop it now. If they think your going to throw they will do lk burn kick which avoids throws or HP Thunder knuckle which can’t be thrown now. We are going to see alot less EX siesmo’s now in 2012.
Using HP thunder knuckle will be risky since its not safe on block unless you FADC it.
Shes still going to be very strong without it and I think she will be the best character in the game in AE 2012.
what was the official translation of the hp tk again? cause i misunderstood whether it got more invincibility or just more throw invincibility so it will still be possible to trade ultra?
Do you even know how EX Seismo works? 19f startup, 13f invincibility. Basically, she can get counter-hit out of the move even she did does it as a reversal and hers comes out first. And because it’s a counter-hit, it means the opponent can land even more damaging combos on her. So Ken can do stuff like blockstring into f.mk and your reversal EX Seismo will get stuffed. You have to guess between kara throw/step kick/DP all day. Same with Bison. Same with a whole bunch of other chars. Unless you’re just praying for a comeback Ultra, LK BK is the better option.
If you don’t believe me, how about asking considering what one of the best Ryu players in the world thinks?
Saying that EX Seismo is OK to throw when you think a throw is coming shows a complete lack of understanding of how that move works. Yes, it’s a great move. Yes, it can be used to beat throws. But no, it’s definitely not OK just to throw out when you suspect a throw is coming. If you really want, I can actually write down the frame data for a typical situation up close and you can see why EX Seismo isn’t such a great idea when you have to guess between throw and counter-hit setups, but somehow I don’t think you’re gonna accept that either. So just play Viper for a while and see how far you get by mashing EX Seismo as a guess response to throws.
lol before you go around accusing people of not knowing their stuff maybe you should actually check your facts. I am not the first to say this and many of the ones who have said it are players that you aren’t even close to in skill level.
First the start up frames is irrelevent in this case. You don’t have enough time to react. I use EX Tatsu for throw traps and it isn’t exactly the fastest move either.
I also love how you think that quoting some sentence instantly proves me wrong. Did he say that is all Viper does? Did he say that it is the only option? Nope. So your quote proves nothing. And how about before you open your mouth go play a top ranked Viper and try to be predictable with your throws. You talk about how I don’t know what I am talking about well guess what? I’ve probably played better players than most of the people on this board can even claim to have met.
I mess around with Viper and have done it…oops wait was that actual experience? Against people who get predictable with their throws (Jab jab throw XBL scrubs) you don’t need burn kick. It is a little more risky, but the pay off is huge. You don’t throw it out brainlessly, you throw it out when you know a throw or some heavy normal is coming and sometimes you might tag people into massive damage.
Also you fail to realize another sitaution you can throw it out is during rush down. If you act like you are going to throw and then EX Seismo instead you can tag the person when you are on offense too. You don’t only have to use it for defense.
In the hands of a scrub EX Seismo wasn’t much trouble. In the hands of a pro who is good at predicting their opponent’s moves it is the best use of 1 bar in the game. I dare you to ask any pro otherwise.
Yea that is the main point. Risk vs Reward Viper’s risk is small compared to the reward she gets for it. EX Seismo is really really good and even though you can’t use it in throw situations any more I think you will still see Viper remain much the same.
I really like the change up of TK knuckle to throw invincible and EX seismo to not, really makes it so the risks are in the right places. As it was Siesmo was the go to option if you wanted to messiah your way through things and TK knuckle was if they like. Jumped. Basically. You have to remember that if you try to meaty her and she seismos you don’t get to cancel anymore so its not that easy to flat counter hit it even though it starts up later than invincibility. Same as Makotos EX Oroshi[although c.lp check shoryus will still work of course if you’re sharp] Now you can beat throws and still get the ultra if you FADC and you can mess up meaties with seismo. No more one size fits all stuff.
You could have saved me a lot of time by just admitting this from the start when I told you you were overstating it’s effectiveness. It’s not a DP xx FADC kinda move. Using it like that will get you killed.