SSFIV AE 2012 ALL character changes (FINAL )

True but at the same time Gief’s U2 also changes the match up quite a bit from vanilla since it limits Akuma’s options both on Gief’s wake up and on a Gief jump in. I have to be careful with my SRKs because it could quickly turn into a game breaking Ultra. c.HP is ok against Gief, but can trade a lot with his air normals which is always in Gief’s favor. Besides some Akuma players prefer U1 in the match up since it is more practical at punishing things Gief tries to do. U2 is only really useful for wake up, it is too slow to actually punish anything.

I don’t believe U2 is as game breaking as some make it out to be in that match up. It doesn’t help Akuma out of the corner which is where Gief can actually punish the teleport.

I’ve lost to Gief more in AE than I ever did in Super and Vanilla. IMO it’s gotten harder to apply pressure on Gief and it feels like Gief has an easier time actually getting a hold on Akuma. I used to be able to rush down Gief in Vanilla.

Though like I said, if we are going to talk about Akuma the way we have been, Gief is one of the few characters who had good or great match ups against the Hong Kong Trio and also against a good portion of the cast. He is a character that either dominates or gets dominated. That’s just the reality of his character design.

Fei beats Gief, no bones about it. Fei has excellent wakeup options and controls the mid range game better than Gief does. As for Yun and Yang, week 1 thoughts were that Gief beat them pretty well, but surprise surprise people figured out how to play those characters and now those matchups are even or 6-4 Gief at best, nothing to write home about. Seriously Gief’s matchups are not as polarized as people tend to think, is only matchups that have 8s and most of them that have 7s are losses lol.

That’s because you don’t understand the character.

Because they are.

Zing.

If you’re not complaining too, it’s because you don’t understand anything. Get it?

2012 can be so balanced it wont have any tiers
…but it would still have lots of of tears.

Like wise I can say the same thing about Akuma. I’ve never felt in my whole time playing him that he has ever dominated a match so hard that I just couldn’t lose. Well except maybe Abel in Vanilla. That was broken.

Why? What’s going to happen, exactly? And I’m asking a question, don’t fly off the fucking handle like I just said Akuma should be nerfed into bottom tier as some people might.
And it takes away the effect when you say “zing” yourself.

How can you say Akuma/Gief is tougher for Gief in AE than Vanilla? You could lock down Gief with demonflip throw OS Srk in Vanilla. Gief could literally do nothing. DF grab caught ALL his reversal options and SRK would beat backdash and jump outs everytime.

I mean in AE yeah it may be hard to get in, deal damage and stay in but what do you do when you cant even get back on your feet to establish momentum?

Not to mention fireballxxFADC fs RH still existed, the loop was somewhat possible on Gief, and his stun/damage output was higher. All this made it just as dangerous for Gief to try and play footsies and far outweights his inability to chase down teleporting Akumas. IMO

Cammy crybabies are far worse they complained in every damn thread, at least Akuma players keep it to their forums.

Clearly, you haven’t been keeping track of this thread. Who are these Cammy players you speak of?

He is talking about Cammy going from Super to AE

Please stop this bs. Now I’m sure you never played a decent akuma with gief in vanilla. Akuma could OS off of a df throw in vanilla. That shit was broken. If akuma ever got a hard knockdown NEAR the corner (not even in the corner) it was GGs for poor Zangief. Df throw OS srk loop all over. Lariat? beaten by df throw. Backdash? Beaten by srk. Jump? beaten by srk. EX GH? Beaten by df throw. And after every df throw it was the same shit all over again.
And outside of the corner it wasn’t much better anyways since df throw OS sweep still killed gief pretty easily.
Not to mention that coward copter was really good in this matchup to get out of the corner. And akuma’s damage/stun was nerfed way harder than gief’s through all the iterations of SF4.
Also, U2 is a lot less godlike than you think in this matchup. Gief can still BAIT teleports. In fact I use U1 in this matchup. It’s actually better than U2 vs gief. You can cancel f.rh into demon if gief neutral jumps it, you can punish the rare occasional blocked GH with it for 500 damage, you can palm OS U1 for backdashes/wakeup GH and you can still cancel sweep into ultra if gief tries one lucky jump in when predicting one of your sweeps.

You usually say intelligent stuff, but you’re completely wrong about this one. This matchup was REALLY bad in Vanilla, like 8-2 probably (I remember Eita saying this in Cannes at WCG). Now it’s more like 6.5-3.5 or something

It was the same shit vs gief. Him and abel were really fucked by df throw OSs.

EDIT here it is

haven’t you seen the deliciously salty tears of akuma players in every page in this thread?

I still have the taste of your tears in my mouth from when crapcom nerfed honda’s lp headbutt. Those were also delicious

Gief can shrug off a punish or three. Akuma gets wrecked from one. For Akuma a serious punish seriously asks you to alter your game-plan mid match.

That’s not to say other characters laugh at a punish, but for Akuma when you take your licks you definitely wince, and for the person who delivers a solid punish on Akuma a lot of the time you find things in your favour.

The argument about Akuma having to play a lot smarter due to these nerfs while true also doesn’t factor in the, er, fact that Akuma already has to play smartly due to his health and stun handicap as it is. It takes a lot of concentration to keep Akuma’s head above water and taking your licks is very costly for him. He has very little room for error and these nerfs raise that bar even higher due to his reduced ability to open opponents up for damage and setups.

Its pretty clear that Capcom want to bring him into line with respect to how he stacks up against many characters due to his setups, but I feel they are really pushing it with these changes. When you cut back his ability to mount offense and apply setups I fear that Akuma’s style is just plain going to become lamer and more stand offish. He has evolved into a setup-heavy character and this is the hallmark of how he applies offense. Reducing these attack options stands to invoke a little more risk and exposure to retain momentum, which any Akuma player worth is salt is reluctant to engage in. I’m confident that new setups and options will emerge with these nerfs in mind, just on paper (so far) the impact to his setplays and appeal as a character is quite large.

Akuma will remain strong, but his appeal and overall style is going to take a hit. That’s the main beef Akuma players have combined with the fact that as each iteration of this game has been released, Akuma has always been the focus of negative changes. Nobody likes their character gimped, especially when a lot of the cast is receiving some sweet buffs. Even so, Akuma players weren’t asking for nor expecting buffs - the general consensus was that he seemed pretty well balanced in AE and he certainly wasn’t dominating, not by a long shot.

I’m actually curious as to whether people honestly feel Akuma is deserving of more nerfs. Is he really regarded as over powered? Is he dominating opponents with ease? Akuma players here for example are very rare - he just doesn’t have any major appeal. Given some of the negative commentary concerning Akuma on SRK these past few days one would assume he’s an over-picked and dominating character. Frankly, I just don’t see that both from a casual and tournament perspective.

I’m sure we’d all agree Akuma is certainly no Fei or Yun, but is he in any way edging even close to that level of ridiculousness?

For the record, I’m actually in agreement with the nerfs he’s received from vanilla to Super to AE. They were fair and struck me as well thought out. Most importantly, they didn’t impact his function and setplays as a character. These new changes stand to alter that however combined with having a (perceived, at least so far) measured effect on performance and unique attributes.

His new nerfs make for an interesting grab-bag of changes, but all three together? They strike me as pretty harsh. I feel the same way about Yang also and that’s a character that beats me senseless. I expected him to be heavily revised along with Yun, but Yang’s changes also strike me as pretty severe and kinda have me hoping Capcom ease back somewhat. Granted Capcom are still testing, but its not exactly difficult to see why those of us impacted by nerfs are outspoken about them, especially when 2012 is supposed to be the series’ swan-song.

Honestly I’m seriously tired of the “Akuma has low stun/health” excuse. It is a misdirection. Character health in SSF4 is fairly close. Zangief/THawk have 1100 health. How is it that having 250more health than Akuma, makes him suddenly able to take 700 more damage? Akuma gets wrecked from one punish, what do you mean wrecked? 350damage? That is a lot of health for sure on Akuma, but Gief can’t take “shrug off” 3 of those or even 2 of those.

And Akuma - Gief is an extreme example. The average health for AE is 950. I never see Dhalsim (900/900) bringing up his low health. I never see Chun li players acting like their 900 health means that they should have even more tools or never get nerfed. I don’t see it from Gen players who only have 900/900 and no fireball or 3F reversal or most of the tools Akuma players take for granted.

Now if you want to say “well they have 50more health!” and act like that is a big deal. Then fine sure, now you have to state that Makoto was getting major nerfed by going back down to 950 health from 1000. Yet Makoto players for the most part find it “annoying” but that none of her nerfs were really significant.

Akuma players, seriously you have a strong, very well designed, and high skill ceiling character that rewards good play very well. You however are easily the most vocal, loud, and self righteous players (at least among the vocal minority).

You specifically point out that many of the nerfs don’t actually change anything, and yet in the very same breath will act like he is getting nerfed harder than anyone else. If the nerfs aren’t doing anything significant than he isn’t getting significant nerfs. All you are doing is complaining about being TOO LAZY to learn the new setups. All that does is make you guys seem like you want to run on autopilot for wins rather than actually putting in the effort that Akuma and many other mixup characters require.

Suck it up, hit the training room, and quit acting like you are owed anything.

Do you know how damage scaling works? After you factor in the damage scaling that is applied once a character starts having low health, the average 1000hp character has more or less 230-250 more than Akuma. Zangief has a LOT more than that.

Couldn’t Vanilla Gief escape the OS DF Throw setup with a jump-cancelled lariat? I forget.

Nope. He was really fucked on wakeup. Unless this is some really new tech that was discovered after Super was already out and I wasn’t playing vanilla any more

I remember some matches in Cannes from Killivan (very good EU Gief) vs Eita and it was always game over as soon as Gief got swept/thrown once.