Do you know how hard it is for people who just start with fighting games to do a cancel ? Do you know how hard it is for a beginner to hit SIMPLE links ? Do you know how hard it is for even intermediate players to get the first FADC combo down consistently. Do you know how hard it is to hit your tsumuji loops 100% of the time ? Do you know how much time people have to put into this game to become good anyway ? I don’t understand why capcom forces the players to learn the game throughfully to understand it…get it ? Just make the game as easy as possible. I could also go back to the FPS scene and play Call of Duty Fraudops 2. Also the timing for EX divekick > U2 is the same on the whole cast. I am just about to do just a Video to prove that you’re completely wrong. Yes they obviously fall down at different velocitys YET the overall timing is the same. It is not ? Proofordie!
Also most of your suggestions don’t make sense. It is maybe because I am german and I don’t understand french people in general but the most requests you made are totally not important at all.
Safe Store beats Safe Pinwheel (because of spacing, frame advantage, fireball stored)
Having a 4 frame far.LK is also what I want but for a complete different reason.
Anyone who has semi decent reflexes WILL FADC on Hit if they want to. You want something easier play someone else. Being able to fadc on 2nd hit and being +8 on hit is already pretty good.
Good Ibuki players have to learn the timing for the s.HK on the cast too since it is at worst a 1 frame link (Sagat ?). Seriously I don’t understand the problem. If people want to capitalize on it they should simply practise it until it works. If she get’s an easier timing on Store > EX wheel she still can’t punish Hondas Headbutts because the range is still shit. Just a slight idea.
The Teleport idea is just plain stupid and I am not the only one who thinks the same way. Also her counter is already a REALLY good Tool which allows you to armorcancel easily. What you request is just too much.
Divekicks are already proven to be safe, you’re doing it wrong.
Why does she need Far.HP as an antiair ? She has: cr.mk > Senpusha (awesome hitbox here) cr.mp, cr.hp, j.mp , far.mk. s.lp + MK & HK Release. WHY would she need it ? Please tell me.
Your suggestions literally won’t affect her matchups at all EXCEPT the broken teleport idea but hey we should give cammy an airfireball and fullscreen commandgrab where people can’t jump out of right ? What you mostly request are useless gimmicks which a handful of people would use because they think “HUUURRRRR c’est mon style, je suis unique!!”
If you really think I am totally wrong please enlighten me sir, tell me where your ideas would affect her bad matchups. I am always willing to learn.
No, sorry, you’re right and I was wrong to share my ideas. I’ll stop annoying you and let you on your forum. I go back to call of Duty.
And plz don’t beat me if we ever meet
I just want some opinions on these requests.
Far.St.Mp: Cancelable
Increase her walkspeed to possibly guy or fei long’s
Reduce Sekku start up frames by 2 making it 18 frames and recovery by 2 making it 15 frames.
Senpusha- full invincibility
I’m not a fan of LK Pinwheel knocking down. Choosing to end your combo with LK Pinwheel can catch an opponent sleeping. It also leaves them really close to Juri’s kara throw range.
If you want Pinwheel FADC U2, I think the better solution would be to alter the hit stun of the second hit of Senpusha. I believe this was originally one of the buffs she got during the AE2012 Alpha Locktest’s. It was then amended so only EX Pinwheel FADC U2 would work, but it also gave her other Pinwheel FADC combos. Increasing the float on Fireball Store would also give her more U2 comboability.
Also, I think we can post our suggestions without jumping down each others throats.(This is not directed at anyone in particular)
If you look at the Capcom-Unity forums(the place Capcom is actually taking suggestions from), you’ll see some pretty ridiculous stuff.
It’s interesting to see what other Juri players want, both low skill and high. From reading this thread you can already see that a faster walk speed is a very common request. Hopefully Capcom picks up on that.
Either give ex-pinwheel the invincibility it has in FSE all the time (though that might be a little too good since it’s high damage), or redistribute the damage so the first hit does around 60, so if it trades with something it’s not automatically negative. We’re still gonna waste a bar, but at least were not gonna get a 30-40 dmg disadvantage.
_Slight reduction on fuhajin store hurtbox: it seems larger than most other fireballs’ hurtbox, and my friends who know the distance hit jump-ins on it at stupid ranges that are safe to other fireballs.
Making ex Kasatushi always go the side youre holding no matter what kind of crossup shenanigans
This is the reason I don’t post on forums anymore. All I’m trying to do is to advance this thread and encourage some great discussions, but for some reason people on forums can’t take any critique of any kind and spin what you say as a personal attack. First of all genkibot I’m not trying to attack you. I don’t understand how you can get that mixed up when I’m saying it is directed at “everyone.” I’m not trying to single you out even when fall under that “fine” group. You want to know why? It’s because I fall under that “fine” group too. So if I’m insulting you, it’s actually insulting me, and if you’re insulting me, you’re actually insulting you. Confused? Let me explain…
There are two points you brought up one calling her “fine” and so called “good people.”
She’s been fine since they released her in SSF4. For example in SSF4 the hitbox on her focus attack only hit at chest height. That means moves below that area wouldn’t be hit like Dhalsim’s standing HP. So as Juri player you couldn’t focus attack his standing HP, you had to find different ways around it and that we Juri players did. Later they fixed it and her focus attack now hit all the way through. Did this change totally skew the match-up in Juri’s favor? No. Did it help with the match-up? Yes. If I’m fighting Dhalsim and he’s one hit away from dying I like to be able to fight from full screen safely like focus attack if he becomes too aggressive and have it hit just like everyone else’s focus attack. Even though I think she is “fine” because I dealt with that problem way before they had a fix for it, and who knew at the time if they were even going to fix it. If I had a choice I rather have her have a focus attack function like everyone else then not. Wouldn’t you agree with me on that point? For example Juri’s dive kicks are “fine”, but you do it too low the 2nd and 3rd hit misses. Even though I’m sure you and I agree her dive kicks are “fine” wouldn’t you want it to land and hit all the through?
Good players are the people good enough at the game who can make it far into their pools in a tournament environment. I’ve seen a lot of players play well but the moment they are put under the microscope they fall apart. SF4 has been around for some time so you should know very well that pools are stacked these days. Anybody that can make it to winners/losers finals of pool should be considered pretty decent by today’s standards. A lot of known players are not able to make it out of their pools in the bigger majors.
For example I remember being at a tournament where I was in the pool of death. Only two people can make it out of the pool, someone from winners and someone from losers to qualify to compete in top 32. My pool had 3 top 32 placers from evo of that year. Even though those 3 were amazing players only 2 of them would qualify to compete. So they met in winners and loser finals as expected and only 2 of the qualified for top 32 as expected. So being able to make to the winners or losers finals of a pool mean you’re a pretty decent player.
A good player also doesn’t have to be a known player. They might only be known but only in their local scene because they get no exposure. In tournament a lot of times people will say they lose this “insert character name” player and don’t even know the name of the player they lost to or this person is a good “insert character name” player and not know their name.
Infiltration was known as the good Korean Akuma player before he placed at Evo, now he’s known as the current best SF4 player. Gamerbee is another player that was unknown. He got sent to losers early at Evo and made the climbed all the way up from the loser side. People started taking notice of him when he beat Justin and got top 8. Before that nobody knew who he was even though he competed in SBO before, but that doesn’t make him any less of a player because he wasn’t known. While he was over here in the US he’d beat most of the well known players. Xiao Hai is another great example. This kid is amazing. He won King of Fighters 98 at SBO at a very young age. Then he quit gaming. Out of no where he start playing again and made top 8 at Evo. Fuudo is another perfect example. People who don’t play VF5 probably thought he was some old man. An imaginary player, some scrub from Japan that plays 3d games and can’t compete with the newer games. Going into Evo 2011 most people would not put him on their card of people likely to win Evo. In the top 8 that year most people probably expect him to be one of the least likely to win Evo and then he won Evo and became known.
I have spoken with international players, but it’s been limited to Tokido, Laugh, Infiltration, and Poongko. The reason it’s been limited to them is because of the language barrier. Tokido is probably the Japanese player with the best English and Laugh has good English so he can translate for Infiltration and Poongko. They all thought she was pretty weak. I wanted to ask Daigo since that match-up could arguably be in favor of Juri, or Mago since he actually played Juri for a bit, but unfortunately there was no translator around.
First of all congratulations on your accomplishments and I really mean that. I don’t know why I have point out that I really mean it, but if I didn’t someone else will misunderstand me and say I’m being sarcastic. You are right I don’t come to these board much anymore especially to search for knowledge. Most of time I’m here is to check the front page for updates. Every now and then I do look up frame data.
I am not trying to question anybody’s knowledge. I’m here to encourage healthy discussions. As someone said before aim high and a bit ridiculous if need to. Why? Because Capcom is the one that get to pick and choose. If you ask for a tiger they’ll give you a kitten. If you say she is fine all she need is a walk speed increase, then don’t be mad when her walk got increased from being slower then T. Hawk to being slightly faster then T. Hawk, to now being faster then Zangief but still slower then Cody. Fei Long on the other hand get a better dp, safer rekkas, increase throw range on his command grab, and his ultras are buffed.
How often does Capcom let the fans play a part in the development process, not very often, actually what they are doing now can be considered a first for them, so why not put it all out there and see what Capcom decides to do.
I think you’re really misunderstanding. Let not count Flash even though he made it to top 8 with Zangief and used Viper for one match. Since it’s only fair if we use the standard of sticking with the same character all the way through, a character specialist as we call it. Since Juri was release to the world Snake Eyez got top 8 at the 25th Anniversary, and actually the same year Super was out Vangief got top 8 at Evo. So just between those two tournaments Gief got top 8 twice. Those two tournaments alone that is more top 8 placings then Juri has ever had as far as I can remember. Maybe you know better then me since I’m not as familiar with the European, Middle Eastern, Southeast Asia scene, etc. but I don’t remember many majors where Juri specialist placed high in a singles tournament.
I want to see more people do well with Juri and start having her place high. Maybe Genkibot you are that player and you’ll prove everyone even the nonbelievers such as myself wrong. The way I see it now it’s a very harsh uphill battle. It’s certainly possible but not very likely.
I haven’t played SF4 online since before the 2012 update so it’s been well over a year since I played online. I’ve played offline or in tournaments. Doing all those things are easier said then done and at next level I still haven’t seen Juri place high at local let alone a major. Even if we did all the changes mentioned so far I think Juri still wouldn’t be one of the top 5 characters in SF4.
I agree with the rest though. Looking for the update to not “really chang[e] where [Juri] sits in terms of tiers too much” is aiming too low. If that’s how things turn out, then so be it, but my ideal outcome would be her moving up a bit.
IKillFanboys, don’t stop posting, man. Look, in every board there’s always going to be a few asses who think they know better than everyone, but that’s no reason to get discouraged from discussion. I think you make some good points.
you forgot the far short having 4 frame startup and just a pinwheel buff
Anyways I also made up my mind a few days ago and wrote what I would like her to have in a new version. I haven’t considered the walk speed yet since I don’t have too much troubles with it but in the end I wouldn’t mind any buffs.
Woops the Midscreen hitconfirm is my bad. I meant: 1 Midscreen Hitconfirm into a Mediumattack which is not a 1 framer and works on all characters which is basically: s.LP shouldn’t whiff on crouchers. I don’t think though thats it is a smart decision designwise but thats not up to me to decide.
Not sure if you are sarcastic about U2 but it is basically possible to combo into it from a LK senpusha on counterhit if they decide to decrease the startup to 7 frames. Now that I think about it again 8 frames startup would be ok too.
It shouldn’t be a 1 frame link from EX Senpusha and yeah i maybe asked too much when I said make it a 1 frame link on counterhit LK senpusha.
Everyone thank you for the words of encouragement.
I’m trying to compile a list where everyone’s voice is heard but this is bigger task then I originally anticipated. Originally I wanted to put this out as soon as the Juri thread is open, but there is so much material to put together. Some on this forum, some in conversation, tons of overlap all around. Too much material and not enough time to do it.
Keep this discussion going as I try to piece this all together.
After thinking about it, I think I support the idea that EX kasatushi (counter) should move Juri towards the direction you are pressing. Because if she activates kasatushi before a crossup attack connects, there is no reason for commands to reverse. If someone can make a detailed explanation why this should be on UNITY, I will quote it to support it.
Speaking of, the thread at CAPCOM UNITY is open. LET’S GO!!!
I made a suggestion to get at least one more costume, any of the Juri concepts that didn’t make it. Maybe they will consider it but if anybody else wants to back up the idea it would be appreciated
Fuhajins are pivotal to Juri’s game. Currently the only ‘safe’ way to store a fireball is from virtually full screen or at point blank during a blockstring… Storing during a blockstring whiffs far too often, though, allowing Juri to be punished.
a) Extend the horizontal range of the hitbox on Fuhajin Store
or
b) Allow Far Standing Strong (Medium Punch) to be Special Cancellable (Like SFXT)
Either of these would fix any issue with Juri being able to store a Fuhajin safely during a blockstring.
Even after her last walk speed buff, Juri’s mobility still seems too slow. When comparing her health/stamina/ability to control space with Sagat/Guile - It seems rather imbalanced that she is so slow. Forward walk speed on par with Sakura, Adon, Guile and Boxer seems reasonable.
Juri has one of the weakest wake up games of the cast. There are 2 possibilities that I feel would lessen the issue.
a) Increase the invincibility frames and/or decrease the startup frames of EX Senpusha. This move gets beaten or trades with way too many things. So much so, that at times Juri could spend all of her meter on trying to get someone off her with an EX Senpusha and still fail, which also leads to trade combos for many characters.
or
b) Increase the invincibility frames and/or decrease the startup frames and/or increase the distance of Juri’s backdash. This is also a terrible escape option for her as it is slow and she gets hit out of it (Without an ‘Option Select’) more often than not.
Decrease startup frames (5 to 4) and increase ‘On Hit Advantage’ (+4 to +6) of far Short. This normal, for starters is too slow when compared with her far Forward (5), far Strong (6), low Forward (6) and low Strong (6). The ability to combo from it would be a nice touch, too.
Change the pushback of Juri’s low Fuhajin to match that of her mid Fuhajin. Currently Juri’s combos utilising Fuhajins are very character specific, though, with the same pushback as the mid Fuhajin there would be less of a hassle in terms of adjusting per character.
No knockdown on Juri’s jumping Fierce. Simply put, it’s virtually useless as it is and in no way would it be ‘broken’ to have the same properties as SFXT.
Alter the hitbox of Juri’s standing Jab to hit all crouching characters. Completely useless normal really. This would give her a solid ‘Bread and Butter’ on the whole cast and the ability to change up her blockstrings.
It’s good to see people from this board posting on Unity suggesting most of the stuff we have suggested here - especially Ultra 2 mentions!! Hopefully, it will get hammered into Ayano’s and Ono’s brain and one day we will receive good news. Still haven’t seen mentions of the EX counter controls being reversed.
It’s also good to see some people on Unity open to the idea of more costumes. I posted the suggestion on Unity’s front page where Combofiend posted, hope he sees it.
I would like any of these 3 costumes, they look awesome. If I had to choose only one it would have to be the one on the left. She looks pretty, sexy in all her costumes, but the costume on the left, besides looking like a boss, looks to me like she had finally beaten Bison and Seth and taken over control of S.I.N. She just looks bad ass.
Anyway, U2 users, what do you think of in a corner EX fireball > U2? Like Ryu’s EX fireball > U1.
I like 1 and 3 of those. Also that other one I mentioned on CU already.
I REALLY like Genki’s changes. Didn’t even think of the jumping fierce thing. That doesn’t mess with any fuzzy setups or anything does it? I mean anything you can fuzzy with j.hp works with j.mp too right?
