Agree very much… It’s a tough task, though. She currently has the tools and walk speed of a traditional zoning character but her zoning as such, isn’t particularly strong when you’re comparing with your Guile, Sim and Sagat’s of the game. They may be reluctant to buff it further as they would most probably see a ‘zoning’ character that can move as fast as maybe Vega? as too strong. If they look at it from the point of view that she doesn’t really excel with her zoning and her mid range game is very weak, they may see reason to give her that strength. I don’t think it’d be an overpowered buff either.
i want an extra new special move. one thats has overhead or lunging forward properties to open up the turtling charged characters like honda blanka guile etc
and yes i’m asking for alot.
Well, she has that QCF + P available.
Here’s my list, with 2 suggestions for each point :
• The low ones can fit in the actual state of the game. They are (or try to) be fair.
• The strong ones are gameplay enhancement for the character, generally allowing new moves/options/plan. They are fair if every other chars are upped. Or on the other hand, are just broken suggestions 
My point was to find an utility to every single juri’s move or reduce some lacks in his gameplay.
NORMAL MOVES
CROUCH MEDIUM KICK
Good move and main tool, but can be stuffed by some opponent’s cr.mk. How can a zoner char be stuffed? Let’s help it to ensure bnb’s on every opponents, and offer a good 5f punisher.
Low suggestion: Slightly extend the hitbox for better range, and allow it to link with low Fuhajin on every character.
Strong suggestion: startup from 6 to 5 (offer standing far medium punch counter hit to crouch medium kick. Also allow to do a simpler bnb with cr.lk, cl.lk, cr.mk with less damage than the cr.mp one). Active frames from 2 to 3.
FAR STANDING HARD PUNCH
This move is good but lack with a too long startup. It’s never used like a decent anti air because of that.
Low suggestion: Startup from 10 to 8. Active frames from 3 to 5.
Strong suggestion: Extend the hitbox up in the air to stuff every jump with an angle-modifier move (dive, tatsu …)
CROUCH MEDIUM PUNCH
THIS MOVE IS GOOD, TOO GOOD. HE CAN BARELY ANTI-AIR BEHND JURI. SO THE PLAYER DOESN’T HAVE TO CHOOSE HIS MOVE, CROUCH MEDIUM PUNCH IS 99% THE RIGHT CHOICE.
SUGGESTION : SLIGHTLY CUT THE HITBOX BEHIND, TO AVOID CROSS UP ANTI AIR WITH.
FAR STANDING LIGHT KICK
This poke is not used that much, because of same speed that st.mk, and less range. So let’s give it some speed
Low suggestion: Startup from 5 to 4.
Strong suggestion: Active frames from 2 to 4.
FAR STANDING MEDIUM PUNCH
This move is really good by itself, but suffers of a pushback problem, in FSE and on counter hit. In FSE, the move nearly always leads to a next move in close. But not close enough to properly make combo (for example close hard kick). On a counter hit purpose, Juri can’t exploit on mid and max distance (note that if crouch medium kick has his startup from 6 to 5, you can combo well).
Suggestion: less pushback
CROUCH LIGHT PUNCH
Since close MP is faster than this move, it has barely any use, even if Juri has low Fuhajin charged. You can’t blockstring decently with without losing your pressure.
Suggestion: Reduce the pushback, as you can make 2 crouch light punch and another close range move.
SPECIALS MOVES
FUHAJIN RAISE AND MEDIUM/HIGH FUHAJIN
Juri was allowed to link raise with his own fireball, or EX.Senpusha. But this link is a kind of 1 frame, character specific, range dependant, and it’s almost never used because of those weaknesses. If Juri miss, -14 move and wasted EX. It was not the purpose of this add to be so contextual.
This is exactly the same for juggles with high/medium Fuhajin. Juri take a risk by releasing high fireball, and can’t reward so much since on some case you can’t dash and EX.Senpusha reliably.
Suggestion: keep the opponent in air 1 or 2 more frames.
LK.SENPUSHA
LOWER THE HITBOX OF THE 2ND HIT, TO ENSURE HIT ON CROUCHED OPPONENTS.
EX.SENPUSHA
Can be FADC for 3 meter is pretty good, but ensure you lose the round if opponent block: no FADC = -14, with FADC = -3 so punishable too.
Low suggestion: On block FADC from -3 to -2. On block without FADC, from -14 to -18.
Strong suggestion: Allow hit #3 and #4 to be FADC-able, to allow « on sight » cancel
TELEPORT
This is actually the main Juri’s weakness. This move has barely any use. In comparison of other Teleports, Juri has to be hit to move. But even with that, you are not sure to be safe after. So this move can’t be used reliably against jump with 3f startup, can be punished at startup AND at recovery.
Low suggestion: Allow recovery frames (after the movement) to be guard cancelable. Like Cody’s knife pick, you can guard attacks, but not attack yourself. Be SURE that a forward TP will TP the right way, to avoid bad direction TP after a cross-up.
Strong suggestion: Make teleport faster by about 10 frames. Allow to TP from a fireball (close range) and be able to punish opponent in his back. Allow to punish an instant air Hadoken from Gouki. And so on… Just make the teleport as fast as the forward dash.
SUPER
LK and MK versions are OK. HK version has a startup of 11 instead of 9. There is anything in the current design that explains this. With this 11f startup, it’s barely impossible to link an instant dive kick with Super HK on corner, so you must use the LK version, wasting damages.
Suggestion: Startup reduced from 11 to 9.
DIVE KICK
At competitive level, it’s impossible to do a safe dive, even by hitting the lowest. Dive should have 1 or 2 less recovery: It will NEVER be positive on block, but still a threat.
ULTRA 2
This ultra has less fun than the FSE, but is reliable on a defensive purpose. Reliable? In fact, there’s some situation where the Juri player won’t try to launch u2 because of the randomness of juggles: after EX dive kick and after jump medium punch
Low suggestion: avoid hitbox to “clip” on the first hits by transforming the active frames from 4(10)3(5)3 to 6(8)4(4)3.
Strong suggestion: extend forward the hitbox from first hits, to improve juggles after jumping medium punch. Also allow to hit shotos with ultra between crouch medium kick and fireball.
Cancel double post, plz delete
cancel triple post, plz delete
I disagree with all of the above strong suggestions.
Far Standing LK is great as a poke, it can stuff many other special moves in the game (Greenhand/Tiger Knee/etc). The hitbox on this move is important to her ground game.
Crouch medium punch is not 99% the right choice: ST Jab, Far Stand MK, Cr Fierce are all other options for different ranges/characters.
Cr Jab is a useful pressure tool as I use it often. You don’t always need to hold a store for pressure.
Ultra 2: I use this exclusively. There is no randomness from Ex dive kick/J.MP.
I’m glad to see this thread active as we roll into the Friday update. I’m trying to compile a post with these suggested changes, so if someone has something they want to get off their chest please do so before Thursday.
I personally agree with most of the buffs over keeping her the same.
I’ve personally spent a lot of time breaking her down, testing, and experimenting. Played tons of games online, offline and in tournament. I’ve talked to a lot of top players and I’ve seen a lot of match videos.
The good Juri players pretty much agree on her weaknesses because it is part of her character design.
We should throw it all out there and give Capcom the final decision on how tune her up so don’t hold back guys.
Also to those of you who say she is mostly fine, how well have you guys done in tournament against some of the best?
From what I’ve seen and experienced people usually lose to her because they are unfamiliar with the match up and the Juri player is better at the match up. Why do some Juri players do better then me in tournament? I feel they are better then me so for example I will only be 3 times smarter then my opponent and lose the match but they are 4 time smarter so they are able to win, but good player or bad I’ve seen Juri players get bodied all the same, proving there are exploitable weaknesses to this character.
I just have to disagree with nayte about almost everything except with the far standing lk buff but I want 1 frame less startup for a complete other reason than you though. It would allow to be the counterhitcombo to be a 2 frame link instead of 1 framer right now. I don’t really care anymore since I Blink my Jabs/Shorts but having a 2 frame hitconfirm on counterhit wouldn’t be too bad.
Also now that I thought about it why does nobody mention the range problem with EX Senpusha ? We obviously have problems to punish Honda and Blanka (Safe LP balls only, HP / MP can be punished after a dash forward with LK Pinwheel FADC). If Juri would get some more range on her EX Senpusha (just a bit more range than LK wheel already has) the Honda matchup would be alot easier and either 6 or 5.5 in Hondas favor. Thats just my opinion though.
If Juri gets the Store buff where they extend the hitbox there would be no need anymore to have a fixed LK wheel because the store would be the go to option for a string ender (fireball stored, safe on block).
Now I just wanted to break down naytes post because I think it’s complete bullshit lol.
Having this one to be a 5 framer is in my opinion bullshit since she were able to combo into it from either far or crouching mediumpunch on counterhit. She doesn’t need to ability to combo into low fuhajin on all characters. Also if you adjust your combo a bit it almost works on all characters. Sweep on the other side isn’t a bad option either since you can safejump from it into fuzzyguards which is almost even better than HK Pinwheel at some point.
I don’t know about this move. I don’t use it and Juri has already enough really good antiairs.
It is not too good. It can be stuffed by delayed divekicks, Juri has also tons of other really good antiairs as already mentioned. Jab, Far.MK, cr.HP and hell even j.MP + cr.MP which is also a good button but not the only good one as you maybe think
As I already said I would like to have 1 frame less startup just because of the counterhit combo but this would only be a nice bonus if they would add it. It wouldn’t make her matchups against bison any easier except if they really maybe change the active frames a bit.
I don’t get this. It doesn’t push back but it rather pushes you forward because of the step she takes. On the other side, don’t combo into cl.mk but into cr.MK > far.HK. Problem solved
Again bullshit. cr.LP into LK Release is a frametrap which is actually useful. I can catch people offguard pressing buttons randomly after cr.LP with the fuhajin which is a nice tool. It is your fault if you don’t really capitalize on it.
You didn’t even consider the rangebuff (you really know your character huh ?) and I don’t think it is that much of a problem. Ibuki’s kazegiri fadc into s.HK is also a 1 frame link on various characters. This doesn’t need to buffed and I use this all the time and I barely miss the link because it isn’t as hard as you think.
If they actually fix the store hitbox this would be useless. If you wanna spam safe moves play Bison, simple as that.
Why would you make it -18 on block ? What are the reasons for this ? Anyone of the cast can punish it already so why ? I think it would be better if they would give it +10 frames after 2nd hit FADC so the combo into U2 would be alot easier.
This is not her main weakness at all what the fuck do you even play her ? I don’t even know about which version you were talking here right now but it’s just bullshit all the way. You can punish goukis instant air hadouken with a Focus Forward Dash.
Makes sense, It is not impossible though. You can link into Ultra too in the corner (easily) which has 10 frames startup.
It is at worst like -4 on block maybe even -2 if spaced properly and yes even on competetive level it is possible. Take a look at Younashi, Shin, Miya, Yossan etc.
I don’t use U2 that much but I can’t even remember the last time I missed it and I am by no means an exceptional good player. Not sure whats wrong with you
I also don’t really know what to say. I expected a bit more from you since I know that you’re one of the better french Juri’s lol
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You realise that the majority of posts her are from low level players wanting easy wins, right? You’re never going to get accurate information about the character like that.
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I hope that’s directed at me. The irony… I don’t even. lol.
It’s not the same speed. Only the first hit of far forward is 5 frames, so when generally using it as a poke (not getting both hits) it’s actually 6/7 frames.
I agree that 4 frames for far short is reasonable, though.
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When the general concensus is a character need to be nerfed they’re probably very strong and near the top of the tier list. Juri was on this list in SFxT and she got nerfed. In 2012 you usually hear Fei Long, Cammy, Akuma, etc. need to be nerfed because they are very strong and at the top of the tier list. How often do you hear Juri need to be nerfed? Not very often in fact you usually hear the opposite that she need to be buffed so she probably closer to the weaker end of the cast.
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That’s directed at everyone that’s saying she’s fine. How well does she stack up against the top players and international competition? You don’t hear of many Juri’s making it out of their pool or going past top 64/32. Even less in the top 16. It’s been a while since I’ve heard of a Juri making it top 8 let alone winning a major … I’m also talking about taking Juri all the way and not for specific match-ups.
I’m the only one here saying she’s ‘fine’ and even then I still said she needed buffs. That’s the funny thing, though… You’ve stated “The good Juri players pretty much agree on her weaknesses because it is part of her character design.”. Who are they? The people that post on this board? 95% of the Juri’s that post on this board are low level. I know you don’t have statements from the Japs about her strength, so who could you be talking about? Juicebox? Neo? The former while a very good player, doesn’t main Juri and his knowledge of her isn’t particularly great. The latter… I don’t even have anything to say other than lol.
The second part, you’re basically questioning my knowledge, contributions and achievements all in one (considering I’m part of the ‘group’ that said she’s ‘fine’), despite the fact that I’m probably the top contributor here (well, anywhere really) in terms of information and ‘technology’ and due to this I obviously know what I’m talking about. Then there’s the fact that I made top 32 at SS last year, competing against the largest or second largest international contingent to make it out to any tournament and that I won our OHN major this year (Xian won last year) and will be a top seed for my pool at EVO this year. You probably don’t know because a) You don’t read these boards enough. b) The FGC doesn’t exist outside of USA and Japan, right? Ha.
You don’t hear of many Zangief players making it out of their pool or going past top 64/32. Even less in the top 16. It’s been a while since I’ve heard of a Zangief making top 8 let alone winning a major… Aside from Snake Eyez winning 25A and Flash making top 8 at EVO (using Viper as well) 2/3 years ago. That must mean Gief is ass, better buff him. Tournament placings don’t mean characters that don’t place are weak - Just that there are a certain few that stand out above the rest.
Things like this is exactly why I feel the need to take considerably long breaks from posting here. Educate yourself before you open your mouth, otherwise you’re just going to look like a clown ala. ‘Axl_m4ster’.
Shiroyasha :
I will just go trought your bad manners, because, you know, you’re certainly a badass so I don’t want to die.
This appart, I proposed some “buffs” for high level AND for low level players. Take for example, the buff of ultra 2 :
That’s the same for me, my last fail was a long time ago with this link. So any up on his move won’t be a buff for both of us. Right ? So it’s not up to us to talk about this one. I just coach and help ton of juri players in Paris, and I see how hard it is for them to realise such a “weird” link with a clipping hitbox. I really don’t imagine the point for Capcom with this link is to force every Juri’s player to learn by heart “which hitbox for which opponent and which high to launch u2”. You can put the same argument for “better raise/juggle with fuhajin hk”, and so on.
Genkibot : Agree your last post :(. back in the days when Infiltration came in france playing Alioune for a long set, they were even with every characters they bot play, except for Juri, who is the infiltration’s weakness. And the infiltration’s Juri is nowhere bad.
I also state that “Juri was fine” at SSF4, but even with 2 patch and MASSIVE buffs on those she’s far from unbalanced or major winning’s eligible. KEEP IN MIND that yun was totally overpowered on AE, received massive nerfs and still a competitive character. See how Juri’s buffs never make her approach that.
I don’t think any one on earth masterize every juri’s tool. But when see some of the best ones in world (Younashi, maybe genkibot, …) they just can’t handle against top tiers char. A bunch of great players tried juri but just let her behind, and in japan, it’s the second most played character. So yes, she’s fine, fun to play, everything you want : but SHE NEEDS some good buffs, and nothing I red here transforms her in “the next Seth/cammy/akuma”. So when an update is coming, when you don’t know how other characters will be buffed/nerfed, even how the game mechanics will change in next update ( unblockables ? air focus ? grooves ? no more guard ? you can imagine everything), WE CAN bring to Capcom some good ideas, fancy stuff and unreasonable buff. Keep dreaming and sharing, even with people breaking everything you say, because you know, there’s plenty of forum readers who never post to thank you but think it deeply.
(sry for bad english, I hope I’m understandable)
I’m just going to ignore everything that’s been said so far - too much to read.
AE2013 Changes:
Overall: Yes, bring Juri’s overall function more similar to SFXT. That game shows just how effective she can be, even discounting most of the system and hitbox differences.
Walk speed = Chun or Cammy.
s.LP/cl.LP: Hits all crouchers, yes. 3F startup to give tighter window on c.lk s.lp frame trap.
Far s.MP: Cancellable.
Far HP: No change.
Far LK: No change.
Far MK: No change.
Far HK: -3F startup.
All crouching attacks are fine, except c.lk. c.lk +3 on block, making c.lk to cl.mp or any stand jab a 1-frame true blockstring.
Sekku +0 on block.
Make LK pinwheel knockdown on hit.
EX is airborne from frame 1 and completely invincible until landing, including against throws
Ultra 2 now 7 frame startup, improved horizontal hitbox and improved juggle potential - should connect after Senpusha FADC and also Fuhajin store mid-screen.
this is probably the most interesting request list so far. disagree with one thing and interested to know the thoughts behind a couple of others.
chun has the fastest walk speed in the game, while i actually request a walk speed buff on my personal list - i think having the equal fastest walk speed is too much.
the reasoning behind sekku being 0 on block and short pinwheel knockdown on hit? sekku being -2 is fine for me - only things like chuns super and giefs spd can punish. short pinwheel knocking down seems like a nerf to me, tbh.
lk pinwheel knocking down… y? oh man look guys lets break down needs from wants. needs is like Im starving and never knew that a meal like thanksgiving was possible because my gourmet feast was a can of campbells soup and on a perfect day a side of crackers. wants are even though I have four Nike sneakers, I’d like some Jordans. Not trying to sound like a jerk but we need to talk about what we NEED not just what we want.
So far, I can agree that we NEED:
1- Faster walk speed
REASON?
Makes footsie game stronger w/o modifying hitboxes. Can also help her kara grab if used correctly.
and…thats it.
Not needed but, not neccessarily wanted either:
2- Teleport Buff?
REASON?
Juri players should be used to blocking in wakeup, but since theres nothing else in my brain I can concoct, if teleport would become 2 frames on startup instead of 4. Gives a mindgame to our wakeup so players don’t spam jab when we get up. (we have crouch tech and blocking already so not needed but…idk its something)
WANTED:
3- EVERYTHING ELSE
REASON?
Most of the buffs mentioned on this board so far are for insignificant aspects to her game. For example, someone up here ACTUALLY ASKED FOR A NEW MOVE. ARE YOU KIDDING? Shes a great character already but playing with other good players from New York (shotouts to Lazyone and some other pro players from Next Level) I learned that her footsie game is her big problem. And its not because her footsies are bad, rather her walk speed. If ken wants to grab her, you have a set amount of time to do something or else since his walk speed is faster than hers(and same goes for EVERY OTHER SHOTO). That ALONE makes her strong.
I know I said before that I like icing on my cake, but wheres the cake? I say that most up here need to take a full day and really sort through what Juri players NEED to help her with some of her faults that exist and NOT just what we see as a weakness because Kasumi from Dead or Alive or Zero in UMVC3 can do something we can’t. If we don’t then our character is going to wind up staying behind while everyone else gets fixed up. If you dont know most of her setups (unblockables, safe jumps, IOHs, etc.) ,match ups or strategies then try to research that first THEN talk about what we need for Juri. Maybe you’ll have a better idea that way.
I actually play against top players in new york at Next Level weekly, so I have experience of what top players are like. I can tell you that she is used very differently than online play. Need to play footsies, no random dive kick BS, think, adapt, patience, etc.
In my opinion, Juri is fine and is 5-5 against most of the cast aside from some 6-4, 4-6 matches. A slight buff to her or any character drastically changes the meta game of the whole cast.
A little walk speed buff would cover a lot of her “weaknesses”.
Yes! A walk speed buff should be first priority, in my opinion (other than fixing FSE stuff and maybe EX Senpusha buffs).
Anything faster than Ryu’s walk speed is probably too much, though.