We all know this is a fact for Ryu…He is the most balanced character in the game [Has options for almost any situation, anti-airs, ground game, pressure, zoning ect], he can combo into super/ultra the easiest in various ways [Better than any character in the game] and has the least bad match ups [Dictator and Dhalsim being possibly his real true bad ones]. My point Ryu is still one ofthe best character in the game.
Honestly I dont think LP Dp will be the way to go in most FADC ULTRA combo, theres to much that can go wrong, like being out of range and the Ultra timing
becoming extremely tricky in some case. Personnaly I will use MP DP. In top of that you have to learn a ton of exception and character specific stuff for
an extra 15 points of dammage.
One situation where Lp Dp will be useful is in Solar Plexus, c.hp xx lp FADC , ULTRA. Its apprear more confortable than (mp) dp , work on all
the cast and the Ultra timming is normal
Yeah, I’m thinking that Lp Dp will only be used in punish combos ( like st. hp xx srk FADC ultra)
The range on Lp Dp isn’t actually a big deal for punishing because st. hp xx srk FADC ultra does more damage than cr. mp, cr. hp xx srk ultra anyway, and if you’re not gonna combo in ultra, you can just do cr. mp, cr.hp xx heavy srk
and Mp Dp will be used in hitconfirms, like cr. lk, cr. lp, srk, and jump in, cr. lp, cr. hp xx srk
Btw, does anyone know if the new hp dp is super cancellable?
Lets check it all:
Now, my argumentation is based in the premise that from the non-invulnerable frames on, the second hit is active. But im not 100% sure on that so we’d have to check it.
HP AE
1f = invincible / no hit
2f = invincible / no hit
3f = invincible / 160dmg
4f = invincible / 160dmg
5f = vulnerable / 60dmg
6f = invincible / 60dmg
MP SSF4
1f = invincible / no hit
2f = invincible / no hit
3f = invincible / 80+50dmg
4f = invincible / 80+50dmg
5f = vulnerable / 50dmg
6f = vulnerable / 50 dmg
MP AE
1f = invincible / no hit
2f = invincible / no hit
3f = invincible / 80+50dmg
4f = invincible / 80+50dmg
5f = invincible / 80+50dmg
6f = vulnerable / 50 dmg
Lets consider that the opponent knows what hes doing and he will never to do an empty jump that will fall in the dp’s range, so we’ll only land a clean dp if we manage to hit the opponent during the invulnerable frames of the move. So its gonna be like in SSF4, if you are good enough to hit the dp in that 2 frame window, you will go HP all the way. Its like you said, if you landed it well in SSF, go for it. The lose of 15dmg in a few ocasions to get extra 30 damage every time my opponent jumps on me is a good deal to me, once I had not problems with SSF4’s dps after I adapted from Vanila. If its not a good deal for someone, I think those guys have to improve their execution.
I didnt test them, but from experience let me add this:
Where you say cr.mp, cr.hp, lp dp wont land unless c.mp is performed from close range [where you wrote an ©], its not exactly that. In some cases it may be, but not in all:
There are a few chars. where the cr.HP, cr.HP, LP dp from point blank seens random, it works sometimes and misses sometimes. The problems may be 2 things; the chars “breathing” or the link timming, but its probably only the link timming.
c.mp, c.HP is a 2f link, if you link it in the first possible frame the dp will connect, if you link it in the second possible frame the dp will miss. The same can happen with the c.LP,c.HP link.
About Viper, you say **cr.mp, cr.hp. mp dp **wont work on Viper, because “second hit only so no fadc”, and thats true, but you have to point out that it also happens with the HP dp, so Ryu’s changes doesnt affect him against Viper here, the readers can to understand it wrong. There are others chars where it happens
They never said c.mk was coming back to the way it was in Super.
They are specific enough to relate that the amount of active frames, the overall movement and reach of the attack are the same as they were in SSF4. After such detailed description of the 2012 c.mk, dont you think they would to relate if the hurtboxes get tweaked back to the SSF4 ones?
Have you seen people using these “devastating frametraps and powerfull links” in AE? If you didnt, you wont see them in 2012 aswell. If you want to know why you havent seen people using these “devastating frametraps and powerfull links”, take a look into the forum or test it by yourself against the cast.
Same as s.MP. Have you seen anyone using it in AE? You will see it the same amount of times in 2012.
His links are far from beeing the best in the game, they are pretty bad and thats mainly due his walking speed. you cant deliver a damaging combo after a sucesfull frametrap and you also cant to keep the pression after a pos-frametrap combo finished with a sweep, the opponent gets too far. Thats why his rushdown game isnt anything better than mediocre.
You talk about a lot of things you dont even know, 2012 Ryu’s will be better than AE’s one for sure, but will be far from this godlike thing youre suposing he will.
Meh I was quoting many posts of diferent users at once, the forum just erased them all after I quoted this last one, and I didnt notice untill it was to late to control Z. This kind of multiquoting system is so crappy.
Ohhh! I see now, thanks for laying the frames out step by step like that, I was mistaken when I was imagining things in my head, for some reason, for the four invincible frames, I didn’t think about the first two frames where there is no hitbox, I was thinking of 4 frames of invincibility once it was active (but then there would be six, somehow it didn’t register to me).
So yes, you are 100% correct, it will get full damage every time it hits deep, so it will be like anti-airing in super(which wasn’t too difficult)
Sorry for the confusion, but I’m glad that’s cleared up now, 2012 is looking better and better 
My opinion on the matter is that some in here are over emphasizing minute portions of his changes.
What is the big deal about landing c.mp, c.hp xx hp dp ultra? Like someone mentioned previously just replace c.hp with s.mk. This will push you forward enough to land lp. dp fadc combo. You the damage is 10 less and maybe less than c.mp, c.hp xx hp dp fadc ultra. Can we put that too rest?
Again, as someone pointed out AA with the new hp.dp is like AA with mp.dp from ssf4. Come to think of it even if you did it too early you would still get 10 more damage than you would from SSF4 for a total of 60. Also do not forget that hp dp has more horizontal range which should improve zoning slightly but effectively.
Am i wrong in my thought process here?
Does HP Shoryuken still have juggle properties?
Probably not. just use mp.dp instead. it will work in most cases.
cmk = 60dmg/100stun, c.hp = 90dmg/200stun
Also, im not sure cmk moves Ryu forward enough to make it easir to follow with a dp than the c.hp, but im going to check that soon.
edit: are you talking about crouching MK or close MK, btw? Coz the cl.MK is a better option to those chars Ryu cant c.HP than the c.MK
s.mk=cl.mk, so yes. cl.mk pushes ryu forward so you are able to connect lp.shoryuken after without a problem.
I am just reinforcing what others have said.
When they say “OVERALL MOVEMENT and REACH,” you can believe the hurtbox c.mk is back to SSF4.
No one cares what other people do…That’s the problem with the community now. No one wants to get anything done less someone else does it. The point is two cr. strongs to a standing strong might be comboable and good fo frametrap [catching tech throw mashers].
Again, near vesrsion st. MK is used in combos good damge in combos.
LOL Ryu isn’t meant to rushdown [He is a zone character] however ryu can rushdown when needed he is that balanced. And Ryu’s combos are powerful majority of them are mp to fierce attacks doign heavy damage. And add cl st. Roundhouse to the list. Fierce combos are heavy damage.
I didn’t say Ryu will be Godlike I said he will be very good…again.
You have a very diferent interpretation from me and most of the guys over here about the word “reach” in that sentence .
Look, I have some time experimenting everything we’ve been discussing here, and by what you re saying it seens to me that you dont, it seens to me that you are speculating heavily. Thats why I asked you to think about how many times you see the things you supose taht are good beeing used out there, you would ask yourself “why nobody uses such moves” and then you would start seeing the things more like I do. Nevermind.
2 x c.mp, s.MP connects on like 2 chars in the whole game, when they are standing and from point blank. Against crouching opponents, it works against no one.
From the range where the opponent may consider to perform a crouching tech there is plenty of better options to go than the s.mp. Theres a specific range where you can to use s.MP xx hadoken against most of the cast but cant to use c.HP xx hadoken. you cant hitconfirm the s.mp to then throw a hadoken, however. So if the opponent to block the s.mp, get ready to eat a combo or an ultra.
Its not good for frametraps overall, as you supose. And for what its somehow usefull, its only due the extra damage it does compared to the c.mk, but it whiffs a lot from such range.
Its a little good to poke, but its better as a counter poking tool (its specially good to outpoke Zangief 's s.MK), but from such range, anything other than a super wont connect after a canceled s.MP, and the s.MP could be cancelable into super since Vanila.
Its used in a few ocasions where a c.HP cant be used, happens against some chars. But you got me here, that buff had some utility, at first I tough that in every ocasion Ryu would be able to use the cl.MK he would also be able to use c.HP and that they buffed it just to compensate for the the ones who didnt use c.HP between Solar Plexus and Shoryuken, but I was wrong.
Ryu’s rushdown is weak, thats all Ive beeing saying. Im not discussing if it should or shouldnt to be good.
When the opponent blocks the first c.mp, Ryu have to standup and walk too much in order to be able to hit c.mp, c.hp xx tatsu, that will to deliver some 250dmg. If he does c.LK xx c.LP too. Ryu is too far by the time the opponent’s c.LK comes out. That leaves him in a situation where he cant to do a good combo or a simple combo that allows him to keep the pressure… Frametrapping is a very subjective topic afterall. To me, Ryu’s rushdown game is one of the worses in the SF4 series.
Imo Capcom wanted Ryu to be good at Zoning, with decent pokes. Hes not good at zoning in this game, and the rushdown in SF4 series are too efective, once its Ryu’s worse area he ended up a not good enough char. Imo this would have been noticed even in Vanila, if people have had time to learn SF4 better. Id like to see Capcom making the zoning better and the rushdown not so strong as it is right now, but at this point I think its not possible anymore. I hope they work it better for the SF5 or whatever comes next.
By the way, Im curious if the HP dp will still be cancelable into super. That will make the combo with super + ultra something worth to use even if it wont earn you the fight.
I’m guessing it will, since the dev only insisted that HP Dp will only lose its FADC ability. Then again, it’s only speculation and it can’t weigh to anything unless the game is updated to AE 2012 and it is PROVEN, until then this is only a speculation based on what the devs have given us, instead of us making up our own rules and trying to project a point that is unnecessary and may not be true in the first place. Seriously, I don;t know how people can intrepret one point as another when it is ALREADY CLEAR what changes have been given by the devs.
From Ono’s recent post, he said dev were still adjusting the changes for 2012…therefore ryu might get a few more minor adjustments.
The thing that really bugs me about HP DP not being FADC-able is that it’s such an intrinsic part of the SFIV series’ gameplay, and they’re making a giant exception for one character in one situation, especially the main character, in the main situation that it was intended to be used. Name another character with a ground-based, non-throw special move that you can’t focus cancel from. No character has a sweep or throw that gives a techable knockdown. Was it so great that it deserved to be nerfed? Sure, it can lead to big damage with Ultra, but it’s not like it’s free. It still costs meter to make the combo, and the damage nerf to Ultra (I won’t say Ultra I because that would make it sound like Ultra II is actually usable) made it pretty balanced in my opinion. I personally thought Super Ryu was strong without being overpowered, and that’s where he should have remained. The biggest problem is, these assholes whine and pressure Capcom into making ridiculous changes prematurely. If you let the game and the competition mature, you might have noticed that Ryu isn’t was fuck-all OP as everyone says. You get people that do random jump-ins and then bitch about being anti-aired. So what do? Nerf the anti-air. Reduced invincibility, reduced damage, unfavorable trades… jump-ins for free. People bitch about fireball zoning, so now every decent character has a free anti-fireball move, or two…or three. Get caught in crouching MK too much because you’re too impatient to block and your footsies suck? Nerf that shit! Corner escape tatsu a problem? Fuck it, only Bison, Yun, Yang, Fei-Long, Ken, Akuma, Honda, Blanka, Seth, etc., deserve Get-out-of-Jail-Free Cards anyway. Never mind that there were already tons of ways to counter/punish escape tatsu. God forbid Ryu has options.
Same here. The distribution should be 50/50, in SF4 its probably 70-30 or more.
Simply put, the result of all the years Capcom have listened to scrubs crying. Oooh, how I missed those salty tears. :arazz: