1441

???4???4???

“Super AE’s balance is more interesting than vanilla sf4.”

??4 = vanilla
??4?? = AE

1442

The community just needs to get used to Yun and Yang. Dive kicks aren’t new. Rufus isn’t even that bad anymore. You can kind of apply the same techniques and methods against them. They just have more explosive damage output which results in allowing them to deal them in the first place.

1443

Many players seem to think that Viper is a top character in the game. She hasn’t really changed that much since Vanilla. I wonder if it’s because they’ve discovered so much new technology with her since then, or if it’s simply a case of her bad matchups becoming much easier.

1444

Can’t like half the cast unblockable her now?

Also barely changing from vanilla is part of why she is strong. That damage is so big.

1445

she isnt that strong on paper, considering her ground tools and wake up options. her strength lies mostly in the inability of her opponent being able to block. and when you also consider that good viper players are few and far between, you get a lot of people not knowing how to block her, and saying she’s really strong

on the flip side she does place you in a lot of 4 way mixups that take off 1/2 your life bar, or she stuns you in 2 wrong guesses. so even if you are supposed to lose a matchup as viper, you can still win with a couple good guesses

its hard to determine tier placements of pure mix up characters, and it gets even harder if that mix up can kill you with 2 wrong guesses

1446

I just don’t see how she can be better than Abel, whose mixups are at least 10x more retarded. You can actually block against Viper, but against Abel, sometimes it’s better just to eat the OS or intentionally reset yourself so you don’t have to be forced to guess after every hit. There’s not even a GM Viper in AE yet.

[edit] I just read the new BP update. It seems Dath Viper finally reached GM rank.

1447

illitirit, I think character perspective comes in here.

Abel destroys Blanka because he can punish your reversal on hit, and you don’t have a 3f close/crouching normal to throw out if you block stepkick, and he can easily OS vs. your other escape options. However that isn’t the case for every character, Abel seems stupider when he beats you so badly because your cr.jab isn’t 3 frames.

Blanka does well vs. Viper for various reasons that I’m too tired to list.

1448

I know why Viper beats Blanka - I play her as well. I’m just talking about mixups in general. It’s impossible to guess right every time against him, and even when you do, with many characters your punishment options are basically limited to a reversal or sweep. With Viper, some chars can easily avoid her burn kicks by ducking under them. You can also beat them with a well-timed focus attack. Her Ultras don’t completely shut down your options either.

Maybe Abel’s nerfs made him easier to deal with in AE, but in Super he is just dumb.

[edit]
Now that I think about it, it might be that in AE Abel = Viper on the tier list, but Viper might be more popular so more people will complain about her.

1449

Viper pretty much breaks all the rules of SF. Footsies and zoning are essentially tossed aside in favor of high speed aerial guessing games. I hate fighting her because it just seems so damn random. Probably my least favorite matchup.

That being said, a lot of it is my personal issues with her, so I’m not gonna sit here and scream “OMG SHE’S SO TOP TIER OMG” because I know it really isn’t true.

1450

This.
This matchup must have been forgotten by most.

Not knowing the matchup means getting blown up into a wheel of fire kicks (which will probably happen anyway) !

This is her okizeme. Yet, when you’re on your feet, it’s back to footsies and zoning.

1451

So basically you would rather play brutally slow paced herp a derp loldownback trytogetpastmydefense than play much faster paced herp a derp lol you guess wrong ae?

I don’t get it. I mean I know those who have trouble playing QCF characters effectively aren’t a big fan of the changes, and will miss turtling with charge chars, but overall it was a drastic improvement to the game.

If they nerf Yun and Yang a little bit, buff SOME of the charge characters who were overnerfed (Guile) for console then it’ll be perfect IMO.

1452

do we really know guile was over nerfed?

outside of looking at the nerf list, and bp rankings, how do we know?

what amazing guiles are now getting blown up in AE

1453

yeah I actually do. It was an improvement to the people who like to push buttons. At least when i lost to turtles it was me being an idiot and losing in fundamentals. Not a bullshit oh i guess wrong there goes my life and now im in that position again. Nothing fun about being out guessed by an opponent.

as for your idea of perfect how bout Capcom give me the choice to use Vanilla Sagat vs Super Guile.

1454

If you absolutely need vanilla Sagat to win then you don’t even deserve to be playing this game.

Getting tired of these scrub comments.

What you call “pushing buttons” is actually called “frame trapping” at high levels of play. And it’s all part of footsies/mixups and it’s not a 50/50 guessing game. Fuerte and Viper have guessing games.

You just need to learn how to block, tech and punish. Go back to the lab and study your opponent’s frame/hitbox data, not just your own.

1455

There’s hardly any Guile’s left to get blown up.

1456

This.

Thank god some people still have half a brain.

1457

So… you don’t like losing to opponents who outplay you?

1458

lol. some 09’rs love trying to grow a gray beard.

nothing wrong with having less guessing games but if the game runs this slow and there are focus attacks that absorb high and low pokes without taking much risk, than that shit is boring. you’re going to spend a lot more time trying to break someone’s defense and most of the time you’re risking way too much in doing so. ae will probably be better than ssf4 but i’m guessing it won’t be by a huge margin.

i’m all for more guessing games if it makes this snore fest a little more interesting.

1459

Herp a derp, I like pushing buttons to get in. Whats this you want to play footsies herp a derp i can push a button to fuck your footsies. Whats this fireball throwing? Fuck that ima blow past that shit and push more buttons because it works. The ability to have moves that blow past defenses like nothing makes pushing more buttons a really good strategy.

Do you even know what the fuck pushing more buttons refers too to begin with? Here ill refrase it for you. it doesn’t mean frame trapping, it doesn’t mean Smash level mind games with that SRK FADC, or throws. It means im going to push more random buttons because it works. Frame trapping has been a part of every SF game, so what are you trying to get at with your response?

At least you got your foot in the door with Fuerte and Viper. Thats a good start.

And sorry for wanting to experience the greatness that would be Vanilla Sagat vs Super Guile.

oh im sorry, I kept Abel out with my 70 damage FA bait friendly pokes for 70 seconds. I have 60% health and Abel has 20%. Abel got one lucky read and now I happened to guess wrong and died to 3 guesses. Yes i surely got out played. I didn’t know Rock Paper Scissors or a coin toss took tremendous amounts of skill. Hold up while i position my hand so the centrifugal force on the coin makes sure it lands on heads rather than tails.

And no don’t even start with your

well don’t get caught in it nonsense, because you are lying to yourself if you think that’s an actual solution to that coin toss. Not having sex isn’t the cure for aids or hepatitis.

I don’t mind how it is in Super, I do mind though, that im going to have to deal with more of this let me push this button when im outside because its now really really good thing to do. Rather than let me push buttons once im in.

@pootnannies

im being real honest here

the bore fest that people consider

O.Sagat is godlike. ITs not about me trying to growing a beard, its just that interesting, fun, and intense.

THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITES

1460

Well there are certainly more Guile players than Fei Long players now, right?

Being able to press buttons without fear of high punishment is due to overall damage nerfs, rather than a lame character nerf.

That’s why the twins are so funny. They’re pretty much the epitome of what everyone wanted, “get in and do shit” characters yet everyone hates them. I hope they keep Yun in his current form to remind people how much skill point blank offense requires.