SSF4 Makoto Thread: Return of the Mak!

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
2281

Aye.

It’s fun to talk about potential mixup or combo possibilities, but this brouhaha on overall competitiveness with the rest of the cast the last couple pages is jumping way too far ahead with not nearly enough information to base arguments around. Save the, “this character probably won’t be able to compete” talk for after the game is released and the community has had a chance to really break down what the character is actually capable of.

I think you are correct about people underestimating the effectiveness of super on its own. Thanks to being able to cancel into it off hayate, that then means that Makoto is able to hit for 300+ damage* off of her two best pokes (cr.MP and s.MK) as well as off of command grab, tsurugi, and also j.HK and potentially j.MK (counter hit crossup j.MK comboed into cr.MP on the German video). The psychological impact of Makoto having full meter can not be overstated for this reason. Having ultra as well takes the potential threat level up yet another notch.

*poke/jump in/karakusa, hayate xx Super xx s.HP, Hayate should weigh in somewhere around that damage range judging by the video we have available. Also puts you in range for at least one more followup mixup with the Renki active.

2282

all i know is im really excited about makoto… she looks like a lot of fun…i was thinkin about playin cody until she came along

2283

Her LK Tsurugi is an overhead so I assume the other versions are too. Was her j.MK that useful is 3S? I thought it was just for cross ups with j.HK being the air move of champions? Or at least really big man-feet.

2284

j.MK had lots of useful applications. The decision between the two usually had to do with what kind of range/angle you needed at the time.

2285

Hmm, why Guile? I think fast fireballs may be more of a concern considering she’d likely have plenty of time to stay out of his range and backdash-focus-forward dash/neutral jump/tsurugi past booms til he’s in the corner. Actually I imagine Tsurugi would be better against him than most divekicks with its horizontal hitbox catching him when he tries to meet you.

I think Honda and Blanka might be some of her most interesting fights. For headbutt though, MP Hayate goes pretty far, you might not need HP Hayate. Considering the speed of some ultras that catch him I don’t think it’ll be too much trouble. Worse comes to worst, EX Hayate and never let go.

I wonder how unsafe Hayate will be in this game. Reversals were generally faster in 3rd strike, and there might be more pushback. I imagine it’ll either be very easy or somewhat hard to punish now.

2286

People are stupid : / you can choke after karakusa, LK karakusa doesn’t reach … that’s the ONLY one justin did. Look at the older demo vid, at least 1 version does. Is justin smart enough to see this yes, but he’s probably smart enough to know that doing other karakusa’s beside LK are probably going to be punishable by backdash or nuetral jump so doing other karakusa’s is going to carry significantly more risk, but it doesn’t remove the option from existing. The developer’s said they transferred over her “playstyle” , if makoto doesn’t have post hayate mixup that is not transferring over her playstyle.

People are stupid : / problem with fireball does not mean you can’t beat fireballers. Balrog has “problems” with fireballers but he does well against all fireballers except sagat and that matchup is bad because of things other than Tiger shot.

People are stupid : / you can abare over fireball, even if it’s not amazing at doing so like Vega’s current ultra it’s a command and fast as hell it will be able to go over fireballs.

People are stupid : / FP hayate is slow … lp hayate was fast enough in the vid to combo off a LP … only the FP is slow. Also LOL at the idea that every dash is going to get punished by a cr. Jab, did you see how fast that dash was? The average human reaction time of a person trained to do a task and look for it (such as a martial artist reacting to a punch or a person having considerable experience looking for a blinking light) is considered around the equivalent of 10 -12 frames. Random throw won’t work often but it will work.

People are stupid : / “she’ll have problem with fast fireballs like guile” Zangief/Rufus have no way to get around boom consistently, but they have positive matchups against guile … why??? boom is a charge move inherent limitation with boom is it can’t be rapid fired created openings where to keep guile’s zoning solid he has to use normals, if you can beat his normal game and use those holes you can get a knockdown into crossup mixup. This is where players kill guile and he also can’t just rapid fire safe crouching srk’s so he won’t have as easy of a time getting you off as ryu/sagat/akuma/ken. If you out damage guile considerably you don’t need a fireball against him.

Honda being trouble? I agree totally Honda has 1 million get out of jail free cards, but it won’t be that bad of a matchup maybe 5.5-4.5. It will be footsies where it will be cr. MP vs. st. RH and cr. Jab. But it probably won’t be to bad, just a normal sfiv matchup. “Oh shit cr.blocking is my best option cuz he has a million safe high damage invincible options!” Really thing people will have to do a lot is do tk tsurugi so that if they reversal a EX headbutt it will whiff, thus allowing for a dash up punish. Also if headbutt is punishable on block this matchup will probably be even.

Sagat being a bad matchup? no st. LK cancel = no easy zoning. This means more fireballs = more easy abare. Tiger uppercut is the easiest uppercut to bait in the game, so knockdown = mixup hopefully, but we’ll see if makoto has any real options against it. Also having to do normals at certain ranges or risk the fireball vs jump mind game results in Makoto being able to win a normal battle into mixup vs. Sagat. Makoto with Ultra again means sagat no fireball, Sagat no fireball and no st. LK cancel = sagat with no zoning. That is a very sad sagat, unless random scar confirm situation allowing dp on reaction to pokes becomes a legit tactic then fuck SSFIV. makoto isn’t going to lose this by a large margin.

Zangief … Ya … um … probably going to be a bad matchup XD Really will have to emphasize poking game and random dash > throw mixups and see hot that works : / I expect this to be a 6-4 against makoto but no other matchup is clearly going to be negative yet.

Also about her ultra’s

Ultra I - used against non-fireballers, also fireballers are the characters with retard dp FADC options so peope without fireball are more supsceptible to karakusa
ways known to combo >
Karakusa > Ultra
Super cancel > Ultra
We don’t know if it has a non-cinematic version to do after EX hayate or fukiage or whatnot
Ultra II - fireballers also a high damage option as it will be an UNPRORATED ULTRA+followup combo, or a complete removal of your opponents strongest zoning option.
We don’t know how this combo’s so no way to comment on it vs non-fireball characters currently.

She will probably be upper - mid probably around or above rufus

Having good normals goes a long long way honestly if she can backdash to bait srk’s to whiff after a hayate no reason she can’t be upper-mid tier. Honda and Gief are the only scary characters imo, Blank is a tard and Unless they give him some major buffs he’ll continue to only dominate gief and crap out against most the rest of the cast. Honestly if Up ball is punishable on block, no reason this should be bad.

2287

People are stupid : / you can choke after karakusa, LK karakusa doesn’t reach … that’s the ONLY one justin did. Look at the older demo vid, at least 1 version does.

You mean karakusa after hayate. Sorry had to bring it up lol

2288

I’d assume that was an older build. I think it would be stupid to assume the best US player wouldn’t attempt every possible combination before telling the world that it didn’t work. Hell, this exact thing was confirmed on sentuamessage on the UK dashboard a week ago.

2289

honda doesn’t have to charge a thing to be a monster, the only time honda should be hold down back or up back(back) is when fire balls are coming and he’s jumping towards someone or has them cornered.

Other than thats honda walks for throws out normals, and mixes that up with hands and command throw. head butt is a much a better AA, or defensive tool.

edit: to much theory fighting going on now.

Its looks like she will have problems with fire ball characters, we wont know until we get or hands on the game however.

04/28 can’t come soon enough.

2290

Isn’t there a ssf4 match vid coming out with momochi as makoto? Should be good.

2291

For the most part, that would happen.

2292

No, as in, I think there’s a DVD of a SSF4 tournament by capcom coming out with momochi as makoto. If it comes out before the game release we could get some good info from it.

2293

hmm questions:
Is momochi switching to makoto?
Why is there going to be an ssf4 tourney b4 the game comes out (US and japan both get it same date)?
Is this purely to get hype for the game then?

2294

You think she will have issues with projectiles when she has a half screen dash and an ultra that looks built to counter projectiles…

Interesting…interesting.

2295

I thought she’d have problems with fireball characters when i 1st heard of her being rumored in sf4, because of her dash being so long, not fast but long. Not to mention those with fireballs usually have dp’s. d,f d,f p>all. Not saying that you should be just running into dp’s but makoto walk speed is incredibly slow. Her biggest prob is going to be getting from little outside of mid screen to her opponent with fireballs and dp’s the only saving grace is that her dash don’t have that delay anymore.

In 3s there was never a problem getting in to your opponents where from the air or from the ground even with the horrid walk speed, because of parries.

Her 2 ultra might punish fire balls but we still don’t know that yet, it should but will it? I’m just going of what i see now and the game engine.

Again if most fire ball characters didn’t have a dp it’d be kinda different…kinda

2296

he also said she has only one target combo, is that true? the impression i got, even though he is the US champ, is that justin doesn’t play makoto and therefor doesn’t really KNOW makoto. I will say that it does seem like they may have changed the push back on all versions of hayate… my only hope is that karakara is still an option???

2297

wut? Did guile get jab jab into stun again or something? Lets also ignore the Devs saying she’ll be a tough matchup for Guile and DeeJay.

2298

Less to Fire ball itself but what lies at the end of the dash.

Really I am more concerned she is going to get zoned out. Luckily most of the really good zoning character have a tiny amount of health.

The only other character I am worried about it Gief and that is because that guys fucks with my head something fierce anyway.

2299

She is going to have problems against zoners, but it is not a big deal.

Her modified axe kick helps but the problem will still be there.

2300

ok, no need to call everyone stupid. lets see whats what when the game comes out

people need to get over the fadc thing through fireballs, its not like cammys ex spiral because you have to wait until the fireball hits you before you advance, that means beyond quarter screen you’re going to be dashing into someone who has recovered. jab sonic booms will be impossible to deal with in my opinion. after re watching justins video, i think IA-tsurugi will be the best tool around fireballs and depending on its poperties it might make some matchups viable, lets hope hk version hits HARD and with GOOD priority. It probably doesn’t hit overhead, this is sfiv remember, and i’m hoping when the game is released i’m wrong about guile and honda.