The difference here is that people know much more about the system for SF4. SSF4 isn’t changing the system around entirely, it is adding new characters more than anything. Though I thought they said something about changing throws but otherwise, it is still SF4.
You can stick with this:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e114/MugenSC/l_43c3d5568bf74ab47652dc14bf72b293.jpg
or this:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e114/MugenSC/2dc12182d74a5337304e41e9727b013d.jpg
or that:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e114/MugenSC/9cba6efe037c5597bfdf913d11cbe7e0.jpg
[media=youtube]U0fVQ3i90zg"[/media]
the dash is too fast to react jab to imo, the problem you’ll face is people OS poking, for example ryu throwing cr.mpx100 (os srk) is going to be a problem. If you dash in and do ex karakusa you wil grab through a jab as they say the ex has armour, provided the ont os an invincible move.
no mixup after a hit hayate? I disagree, you can IA-Tsurugi, invincible ex oroshi, cr.lkx o roshi. no karakusa sucks yes.
tell you what i’m concerned about, that weird dashing characteristic in sfiv where you dash and you get popped about an inch of your opponent, if its prevailant with makoto its going to be annoying as fuck when you dash in and kara and it mysteriously whiffs.
i see lots of people think shes gonna have trouble with fireballers, i dont think so, sagat yes, cos he’s broken, but moreso guile, i rekon this will be a 9-1. and honda will be trouble, did you see how slow hayate is in the J wong video? thats not going to punish a blocked headbut, no fucking chance, so what you gonna do dash in and try to cross up and get auto correct headbutted? what you guys think will be used to beat honda if we can’ punish blocked headbutt? lining up a crossup with makoto is also hard cos she walks like a cripple.
and i agree about ex meter usage being a requirement, hard to build that super imo.
yea that is the damn truth…i was gonna play cody but after seeing the latest makoto vids…im hooked
*Those are some interesting points Sleepy Zero but I think as far as her getting around fireballs is concerned I think that’s been a bit overstated. In one way we can tell by the footage of Mak so far is that she has (what appears to be) solid mobility [media=youtube]RoFGdh-ubY4#t=0m21s"[/media] which Honda lacks. That coupled with being able to TK her axe kick I think she’ll be more similar to Bison or even Cammy just without the walk speed.
I’m not too worried about her damage output or her mixups to tell you the truth, but then again I main Rose in Vanilla SF4 so switching to just about anyone would be a step up. *
I wouldn’t agree. Certainly there are multiple ways to play any given character, but not every character with a command grab plays similarly. Honda has a different spacing game and headbutt serves a completely different purpose than anything on Makoto’s moveset. And mobility makes a big difference against fireballs, probable moreso now with the new Tsurugi arc.
They both do a lot of damage but that doesn’t really make them similar either. Honda relies on being able to endure whatever the enemy does while his chip moves and high average damage ensure that he can punish his enemy’s mistakes harder than they can punish his, but he’s not especially good at directly overcoming a defensive position.
In my view, Makoto isn’t really a punish character. She doesn’t really get a lot of average damage off a single hit/combo, and she has no chip damage to speak of to force the enemy to do something. Instead, her damage output is high because she lives on momentum. It’s hard to defend correctly against her speed and options, so she scores a lot of hits as long as she can keep on the opponent. And if she does that, she is rewarded with a full meter, which is where the real damage comes from. Her high-stun moves also reflected that.
God the last two are nasty.
I don’t understand why people put fan-art on their sticks, it looks terrible 99% of the time.
okay guys, whatever you say. don’t let me stop the hype train.
LOL…yeah, it reminded me of Q-bomb. i just hope it doesn’t have it’s 17 start-up frames. it’s the kiss of death.
I think that’s the point. Makoto and Dudley will be about rushdown…if they can’t get in…there screw’d. JWong show’d Tenden -Renki stops time, to go right in to Seichusen-Godanzuki…for big damage…IF you can get it. Super in to U1 did like 600 damage, but that’s the gamble in Makoto…do you save Super to get Ultra? Or use EX’s (which will most likely be God-like) and probably never land Ultra, outside of crumble state? It really does balance things out if you think about it.
Because I think her Specials will have holes in there playstyle, considering most of them are combo-able…meaning alot of players normals can shut her down…forcing EX moves to come into play.
Is it? I thought it was just as much speculation as anything else in this thread only more pessimistic. Well, that’s fine. You don’t have to be an optimist but it doesn’t giver your opinions any more weight. (Edit - which is to say that optimists and pessimists have the same weight. Zero. We can’t say anything yet about the teirs because there’s still to much we don’t know.)
Yeah, I do. There are 1000 reasons that he could’ve overlooked it. He overlooked one of her moves entierly (oroshi). He also told us that Tsurugi doesn’t knock down like in 3s but I’d bet a million pounds that the HK version does.
Also, Justin never showed ultra 2. Its a pretty safe bet that it will fly right over fireballs on reaction and land a full ultra, not to mention it is jump cancelable for possible a free axe kick combo or at least a dash punch. Also we have no idea how much stun she is going to be doing. I’m not dreaming that she will be top tier(she won’t) but comparing her to Honda is a bit much seeing as her anti-fireball ultra isn’t a charge. If zoners are scared to fireball once Makoto gets ultra it will be a different story.
The fact Honda has to charge some of his shit, makes the Honda/Makoto argument devoid of itself.
never land ultra? it links off karakusa, mak will definitely be landing her ultra somewhere in the match
I think he thought you had to super-cancel into the Ultra, which you don’t since it lands right after kurakasa.
Its stupid saying where she will be in the tier after watching a 5 min. demo, he only went through combos and ultra set-ups, she will have trouble with fireballs
but so does balrog and rufus and both are top tier, so far she looks solid good damage and ultra set-up but we won;t know how good she really is until the game comes out
Those character have a ton of specials that go right through fireballs and punish on reaction! Balrog can use all ex-dash punches and all headbutts, and turn around punch. Pretty much everything he does can go right through a fireball. Ultra and super as well. Rufus has ex-messiah to beat everything and he has galactic tornado which simply eats fireballs and punishes. Plus he can change his jump trajectory anytime he wants in the air. Makoto will be more like a Honda where no specials go through fireballs and she will have to find creative ways around them. How high is Honda? Also no one is basing their opinions off a 5 min tutorial, she’s was in 3rd strike and certain things are going to carry over(such as no real wake-up options). People are making guesses based on the knowledge they have so far, its fun. Don’t take it so serious.
yea im a big makoto fan and hearing people saying she sux off a demo bothers me that all
holy shit we just got done comparing mak to abel and now people wanna compare her to honda?
mak is mak
Uh, hello?
People keep forgetting about super low tsurigi?
If the RH version has a further arc there’s your anti-fireball move.
Plus justin says some weird things anyway. He say st. lk>st. MK is her only target combo but we can see in her command list that she at least has 2.
And shit, grab to choke ain’t shit. Meterless damage which could be part of her mixup that deals at least 33% and at most 45%? Sign me up. Not to mention it leaves you at frame advantage while the dude lie on the ground.
Basically we don’t know the properties to quite a number of her moves yet. Wait till we get more info.
Rule: if you guess negatively, you are called “realistic.”
Some brief points, probably the best way to respond to this.
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Fireballs: Pretend you are Cammy. You don’t need to go through fireballs because you can just dive kick over them, with the occasional ultra. Pretend your Focus -> forward dash is Cammy’s EX Spiral Arrow. For the most part, if the enemy could DP your dash, they could have DP’ed Cammy.
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Meter: Tsurugi will build meter, as will whiffed throws. Cammy can keep even in meter with projectile users while dive kicking over fireballs, and she gets some ultra meter too from the occasional FA.
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Post-hayate: Even if it’s true that there’s absolutely no way to karakusa post-hayate, it’s very unlikely that you can’t tick into Karakusa in some fashion, creating the same/similar result. For example, Hayate -> level 1 FA -> forward dash -> mixup. Besides, as famous as this concept is, look at some 3rd strike videos of Makoto. How often does this honestly matter? If they expected Karakusa they’d dodge it anyway. What’s important is you’re still close and near neutral.
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Damage: I said it just before, her damage is okay but it was never that great until she had meter. You don’t see all the random hits and pokes during a tutorial video. Now she has two meters to pull from. And you don’t need huge damage off of karakusa -> Ultra 1, it’s quite good as it is - after all, look how people reacted to Dudley’s Jab Upper -> Ultra, how much damage do you think that’ll get if you combo it off jabs? Whatever the damage is, it’s more than she did before without super meter.
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Super + Ultra: Of course it will be rare to see both at the same time, but you don’t have to use both at the same time. Super will still do a lot of damage by itself and last for an extra combo or two. Ultra connects off Karakusa, which is pretty much all you need, but if it’s fast enough to do that I would bet that you can also connect it off of something else (counterhit Tsurugi, maybe even a counterhit/super-meaty poke.)
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Building super: I don’t think this will be much different from how it was in 3rd strike. You mostly wanted to use EX Hayate for the knockdown in that game, but you still managed to build super often enough. Judging from the videos, Makoto builds super speedily enough to make it a realistic prospect in SSF4. And remember that at least once per round, you get Ultra off your grab so you don’t need to use EX Hayate for the knockdown. Yeah, you may want to spend meter on defense but remember that it’s not somehow harder to just sit and block in SF4 than 3rd strike. And finally, Makoto was quite capable of winning without supers. Her options didn’t really change in that sense, and she has ultra now.
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FADC Ultra: Probably not all that much differerent from a character with a good reversal super with multiple bars in 3rd strike. The thing about this is that at a high level it’s not as safe as it looks. If you bait it, then they’re standing right next to Makoto at negative frames. That’s obviously to your advantage, and they just spent at least half their meter. If you get hit, it hurts, but that’s true of a super in any game. If you can get momentum back, your health doesn’t mean much.
With all that said I do have some concerns:
-If EX Tsurugi doesn’t hit overhead, she loses some of her mixup, though the divekick-style mixup may make up for it.
-Effectiveness of Abare Tosanami is unknown. We know you can get a hit after it, but we don’t know if you can combo into it.
-Changes to her stun game are unknown. Super will probably be good for stun, though.
-Her j.MK seemed to have shorter range to me from the videos, but it’s hard to tell in 3D.