I’m not going to lie, the game has evolved to almost a science and is therefore made exceedingly difficult to learn the game if you wish to compete against higher level players. You are doing yourself a disservice by not learning them atleast some of this stuff as it will increase your chances. Think about the people at Capcom balancing this game, they won’t know all the ins and outs that decide mathups at this level. They can only look at the given tools and common strategies.
I was referring in my earlier post to players who compete at locals and weeklies or even online that you don’t need of this extra knowledge down to a T.
Of the overall SF playerbase only a very very small percentage uses these. On one hand i like the extra depth, on the other it is just too much unless you have loads of extra time.
if your learning the game you cant expect to do all this crazy stuff in 2 days when the high level players have been playing for years.
The same way if i start playing a game/sport/intellectual activity/real life job its gonna take a while to catch up to the people that have been playing longer/spending more time practicing it.
if your playing someone out of your league of course its gonna feel overwhelming. Like art said. high level players could crush lower lvl players using half of their toolset; its because they play more and this game is competitive in addition to have rapidly spreading tech as well as being old. I would love to hear another 1v1 game where a new player can compete with high lvl players without putting similar effort and time in as the high lvl player.
The stuff that is an issue is not having in game vitality lvls, frame data, hitboxes and explanations as well as tutorials for stuff like linking and safe jumps and window for teching throws.
All stuff that seems derp to me now but 1 year ago when i started fighters it blew my mind and i would have never known without the internet.
The good tech will always require the internet but the basic stuff is hard to look for when you dont undestand what safe jump means and you dont know landing frames after normals or frame data. Especially if its your first game
What I do is learn what is safe and unsafe with my character and then learn about the most common safe moves from other characters and their unsafe moves. Btw I think 1 frame combos should go.
I agree that SF4 has all those problems you mention. As mentioned above, it is a trend in home console video games in general. But games that are much worse in that regard are pseudo sports simulators like FIFA, NBA, Pro Soccer etc.Because there they added manager mode. Meaning you not only need to tinker with player stats, team strategies, coaching etc, but you also have to learn to master the controls, which are as hard as fighting games regarding precision, if you want to play effectively. Because there you use two joysticks.
Whats worse is that you have to pause in-game, make adjustments for a few minutes and continue playing.
yet those games have some of the best tutorials available. But a good tutorial cant compensate for a problematic game in concept.
I like arcade games like Virtua Striker. Imagine if I demolish a top FIFA or Pro player in VS. He’ll most likely hate that game forever…even though it is meant for fun.
I can accept the crap of SF4 anytime, but I am not going to undergo such a painful training process. there is simply no fun in that. I want to play games, not turn into an ascetic.
The point of the articles was that information is readily available to browse on how to play and improve in fighting games. You are on SRK.com! Just read the stickies and browse your specific character section. Your only point is arguing about fighting games need tutorials, in any other hobby you do research before you start or when upgrading/improving. Why can’t you do that for fighting games? EVERY fighting game doesn’t need to cater to beginners (and in your case a complete beginner) by including in-depth tutorials (which is what you’re whining about). You are either a troll or a scrub.
If you REALLY want to get better (which I doubt from your attitude), then this will have everything you need. This is where i learned how to play, if you keep complaining after this. You are a confirmed troll.
K, now you are kind of pushing it. CoD isn’t telling people map positions, camp spots, not running and gunning like an idiot and other little tricks, those are found through experiencing them, or looking them up online. To say that nobody tells you that is absurd. Any decent player will tell a newbie the basics of a fighting game if you simply ask them. If they have no incentive to get good, than fuck it, they’ll never ask and complain about it. Look at the large amount of people that have the knowledge on these things and STILL complain about it. A tut will do jack shit for a lot of players, and in this day and age, no one reads manuals and they skip tutorials. Anything extra about a game is usually looked up online.
SF should take some responsibility in teaching execution and such.
A chess set doesn’t come with instructions for becoming a grandmaster, a baseball glove doesn’t come with instructions for winning the world series, and Street Fighter doesn’t come with instructions for winning tournaments. To improve at any of these things it falls upon the player to learn the rules of the game as well as the advanced techniques and strategies that exist at higher levels of play. The best way to improve at all three of these games is by reading/watching supplementary material, studying the game, religious practicing, talking with better players, seeking out better competition, accruing competitive experience, etc.
This doesn’t mean that any of these games are poorly designed. It simply means that these games are complex and it takes a lot of training and dedication to get good at them.
I don’t personally like SSF4’s game speed and the combo system is kind of boring but I think the best information and tutorials are going to come from the community like they always do. The players and combo video makers are the ones who figure out the game the most and share with the community.
You have to realize that players actually spend more time with the game than the people who actually made it which is where all the tech, strategy, combos etc come from.
At the most I could see them explaining plinking more in training so people can grasp the combo system but that info is already out there. That and speed the shit up
I agree with your main point and actually take it as a fact: the players who use option-selects and more advanced purely-technical tricks have a major advantage, which undoubtedly surpass the results of relying on SF2-like fundamentals. However, I feel the idea that no other fighting game was explored as much as SF4 is “very false”, as Pauli would say.
It seems the SF4 community is largely ignorant of how huge the arcade scene was in the past. Today, it seems safe to assume no other person living in the same block you do 1) knows, 2) plays and 3) likes SF4*. In the nineties, it was probable that no more than one youngster living in your block did not like SF2. The “comparison” is there was no comparison, at all. If you believe the knowledge for games like CE, HF, ST, or Fatal Fury Special, and even some “post-OG” games like CvS2 and VS lacks, then you certainly do not play those games at a level enough to grasp what goes on in high-level matches.
For instance, you might want to check the Nagoyan videos, which present WW gameplay at a level which is vastly superior to what GGPO players would be able to present nowadays. Footage which is even older than CE. Several option-selects, tick setups, baits, counters to counters, counters to counters of those previous counters, and so on.
For another example, just check the ST Wiki. It shits all over the SF4 one, in pretty much every aspect, and is still far from what top players present in ranbat videos.
*I assume a sorta horizontal block, such as in suburbs or smaller towns, that is, no large buildings.
Most casual gamers would be playing Street Fighter on pad. Ever tried to plink on a pad? Ever tried to hit a 1 framer without plinking on a pad? If you miss that link in a match you’ll eat all sorts of random shit and probably lose the round for trying to do what is considered one of your bread and butter combos.
throws are not weak at all. if you know what you’re doing in the game, you’ll have post throw setups, be it unblockables or safe jump or fake/real crossups or whatever, getting thrown isn’t just about the damage from the throw, it’s about exactly how much advantage you gain to setup a situation where the person has to make a guess heavily in your favor. of course people don’t want to get thrown because it can mean the end of the round for you. that said, having to press a button on defense is inherently risky and any player that knows what they’re doing WILL counter hit you if you’re crouch teching so you have to tech late, stand tech and all that which again all has counters and mindgames associated. you absolutely can’t tell me that people don’t get thrown in high level sf4, and if you’re just going off your inability to throw people, maybe and just maybe, you’re predictable and bad!
Don’t forget to add that you can practice your combos all day, but good luck landing those 1-2 frame links online. It’s amazing how I play online and I barely miss a link and I get perfectly shoryuken punished every time.
Edit - I’ve also got beef with the double quarter circle motions. After playing this game for ~8 months I still can’t consistently do it and I play on a stick. I play as Ryu and it is so pathetic that I can’t ever land his ultra on anyone. I wish that Capcom could have come up with a simpler method for inputting ultras. Doing a shoryuken > FADC > ultra is a ridiculous amount of joystick movements in such a short period of time.
The post throw setup does not make throws inherently better/easier to land, it just makes them better if your character has good setups.
It’s very difficult/risky to land a throw vs. Rufus as Blanka but I win the round potentially if I do as I can loop setups on him until he’s dead. Vs. Zangief I land a throw vs. him then backoff because my post throw game vs. him blows. The reward for just landing a throw in sf4 and how good they are compared to a game like ST, Marvel 3, or plenty of other games. The tech window, reversal window, low damage of throws, crouch techs, and the large number of throw invincible moves all downgrades them. Also baiting a throw whiff is very variable in reward for most characters. In a game like 3s most if not all the cast can punish with a combo to super, in SF4 landing a sweep for baiting a throw is kind of bad.
My throw game is built around throwing tech attempts at this point for the most part and not really using the throw to throw people who too scared to hit buttons. My character doesn’t have a dp to make people worry about teching, so they feel free to mash cr.tech or just late stand tech. I have to wiggle back and kara throw their whiff/startup frames, which is just kind of crappy that I have to worry so much about their anti throw options and not just setting up my offense once I’ve forced them to block.
You actually missed the whole point. Sure you can do a lot if you get the throw, BUT you have to get the throw in the first place!
Not if you actually learn techniques like crouch teching in sync with your opponent’s block string. Crouch tech is an OS if done correctly. It’s only if you mash like a total idiot, your opponent has a move like EX Cannon Spike which leaves a large window to press a button, or the opponent makes a really good read on your timing that you get blown up for trying this.
Sure against mid level players I can throw them all the time, but when the other player is trying to adapt to your timing it makes throw significantly harder. Not impossible mind you, but incredibly hard.
Top 32 at Final Round in SF4 and KOF 13 which is one of the largest tournaments in the US for both games thank you.
Maybe you should try to understand where I am coming from since I actually play multiple games where throws have different strengths. In particular KOF 13 which is actually my main game these days throws come out fast and the tech window is really small. In addition some command throws you can combo off of which makes getting thrown a huge problem since it guarantees damage.
Out of even the SF series throws were stronger in previous SF games. The large tech window and the crouch tech makes it throw teching very relaxed.
Don’t know who you are or where you are but in my experience working with Japanese software devs/engineers (admittedly not game related) is that there is little to no arbitrariness in the software creation process. Things are analysed, picked over and debated. Some mistakes get through but that’s the case with any product.
In my experience, lead developers pick over everything with a fine tooth comb and are adamant about error/bug checking, so much so that your average non-Japanese at the party starts to get flustered. I can understand both positions but again, and this is only my experience, I have experienced virtually no arbitrary decisions when working with software devs and coders.
The sense d3v means here is not them necessarily being clueless goons. What he’s trying to say is that they were put in just because, just to make the game harder to play (because they thought the game needed something hard for the good players / training room junkies to grind at) without adding much extra depth apart from a frustrating form of raw difficulty that also doesn’t mesh well with online play.