The only thing that was really bad about vanilla was the theme song.
crouch tech is too good in SF4. so is defense in general. I don’t think those should be considered outlandish claims at this point, even most of the SF4 heads I’ve talked to on this forum will agree with that. and I definitely count that as a core game design problem.
Incoming hate.
I can sympathize with you since I felt the same when I first started playing fighting games 2.5 years ago. I was brand new to fighting games and was very very terrible when I first started. I was so bad I didn’t think I would ever get good, however I wanted to play competitively and had put in the work to do so since day 1 and broke through my plateaus, over and over and over again. You, however, are primarily complaining about obstacles instead of putting in the work to overcome these obstacles. Lack of understanding, execution, and whatever else comes with playing fighting games are things that must be overcome with practice and time. Playing fighting games is a hobby, not a mindless leisure activity. Getting better at fighting games is a goal in itself and is a reason why all of us continue to play, even years or decades after we start. There is a reason why we compare fighting games to chess, it is a mind game; and that is exactly why I love it. It is about outsmarting your opponent and improving yourself.
If you want to become a good player, then you do what it takes to win. Complaining about 1 frame links, lack of tutorials, difficulty of a game isn’t what winners do; it’s what losers do. I recommend you reading these 2 articles in hopes of changing your mindset.
My overall message reminds me of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwJr9ZduG6Y
Put in the work
And people bitch about eventhubs being full of scrubs. Jesus Christ.
I cant believe how boring it was, and now I cant get into it unless Im watching top players play. I beat one of the best 3rd Strike players in my arcade at AE last saturday because I knew Cammy is one of the best characters, he used Akuma since hes amazing with him in 3rd Strike. I was just more rounded in SF 2 before I played 3rd Strike which I suck at.
See its like, all you have to do nowadays is watch matches. Youtube is a intermediate to advance tutorial for you. Just watch it on a computer or tablet while youre in training mode.
Things I -personally- like and dislike about the SF4 series, starting with likes.
Pros:
-As with other good fighters, the truly better player comes out on top, not shinanigan-heavy.
-Requiring hit confirming/linking to maximize/optimize every opportunity.
-Good emphasis on footsies and spacing.
-No easy access to ‘lol ToD’ combos.
-Lots of characters that aren’t -worthless-.
Cons:
-Huge reversal windows still feel too lenient.
-Still a handful of the cast are ‘truly’ viable/upper SS++ tier with their kit being just better than the rest, for obvious reasons.
-Unblockables, but not just that, how powerful (hard) knockdown in general is.
-At times, neutral game/spacing/footsies can get really…not so exciting.
-So many different different hitboxes, rather than small/normal/large, there’s Abel, Balrog, Chun Li, Honda, crouching Honda, crouching Chun Li while crossed up, etc etc. While most characters don’t give two hoots, others (Like Ibuki and her like, 14 different Tsumogi loop variants or whatever) have MUCH more to keep into consideration.
While I personally don’t completely agree with everything that is SF4, I do respect it as a fighter quite a bit, and to see it broken down to a science is quite impressive. While not perfect, it’s still not really ‘shitty’, more a ‘simple’ design. And again, no one’s really forcing anyone to play SF, there’s TONS of other fighters out there, especially now. It’s just hard for people to leave the Capcom comfort bubble.
If we go by the pros and cons list, I’d love to see one for ST since that game has “broken” written all over it.
See, I’ve read Seth’ articles and I think the guy is a fucking retard.
The way he wrote those articles he comes off as a complete dickhead to me and I’d give him the nickname Seth “The Eternal Virgin” Killian.
While there’s a couple of bits in his articles that hold some truth, his overall writing style turns me off and I get the same information from Maj’s Footsie Handbook and James Chen’s First Attack and both of these guys don’t go out of their way calling people scrubs and retards any chance they get and formulate their stuff in mature and cohesive fashion.
And for the 3rd time:
I’m not asking the game to get easier for me, I’m asking for proper tutorials for new players and criticize existing systems in the hopes Capcom improves their production quality in the future instead of feeding us shit like vanilla SFxT every couple of years.
Just because something is broken and flawed and we learned our ways around it, doesn’t mean that this is great production quality, it just shows how much they done right with their core games that we love them so much that we’re willing to put up with them.
Doesn’t mean you don’t have a right to complain, because if you don’t they’ll see no reason to do differently in the future.
Why do people keep using S Tier rating for not-broken stuff? Calling AE Akuma SS++ cheapens the absurdity of ST Akuma and othe ludicrously overpowered characters as well as giving the impression that he’s broken - when he’s really A+/A++, or however you want to put it. Cammy and Akuma are clearly the best, but the difference to the rest of the top tier is minute. Clear but very small, and the top tier itself is very tame.
If that’s not enough for anyone to stop caring about the OP and this topic, I don’t know what else will.
I’m done
[quote=“Komatik, post:149, topic:164799”]
There we go. All better.
This game is impossibly retarded.
Oh you finally learned your combo, guess what you can learn how to plink now, and kara, and option select, here are meatie setups like 500 of them go learn them, oh by the way you also need to know the frame data for the cast, oh and guess what, also you have 50 match ups to learn in depth, oh and guess what that is a 50/50 situation and you lost so even though you learned all that shit gg bad luck try again.
probably lost because they didn’t believe in themselves enough. yeah, i’m gonna go with that answer.
When this game came out you didn’t need to learn how to plink, kara, OS, meaties, safejumps or framedate. Even now you don’t need this stuff.
You can still play fine without all of this, you are making it more difficult than it has to be. Learning basic core mechanics is enough to be competitive.
If you’re facing players who use those techniques and you’re not making use of them yourself, even assuming you know what they are, then they have a sizable advantage. You can play fine, but you can’t compete against players who are using those techniques effectively. Understanding when you have to block because the opponent has an option select, knowing when and how to use an OS to take options away from the opponent, knowing the frames of the opponent’s moves, that’s all important knowledge. If I know that move X is -2 on block, I know I can’t punish it, but I can use my 3 frame jab and the opponent won’t be able to hit me out of it (excluding invincibility frames). If you know that your move Y is +3 on block, and you have a 4 frame jab, then you have a frame trap. If move Y is +4 on block this isn’t true and is less effective. If you choose not to learn every practical aspect of a game then you’re not playing it competitively.
The more tiers u have the more letters u have. The bottom can only be F right? Unless u use the whole alphabet, however most prefer to start using S, S+, S++, S+++++++++++++++++++, etc. instead. Looking at how close numerical values (total of match up numbers) is a much better way to assess than how high the +s go how powerful the top characters are.
Ofcourse when other people use these techniques and you don’t you are at a disadvantage.
The punishes and frametraps can be learned by trial and error and mostly on feel. The point is you can still be very effective without knowing all the ins and outs by just solid fundamentals. FYI, i do use all of these techniques because there is no downside to using them.
He’s exaggerating, but it’s true that the game has really been broken down in a way that no other fighting game ever has, and the engine allows for so many small tricks that give a large advantage. In a match between two remotely similarly-skilled players, it’s going to come down to knowledge. Knowing which option selects and setups work in the matchup, knowing when and how to punish, these things improve your play by 50% or more.
I can speak personally as someone who doesn’t play SF4 as their main game, that it’s frustrating to run into all of these little things that I never knew about, and lose to people that I don’t feel are as fundamentally solid. That’s why I chose Sakura, because I don’t have to study to win.
Yeah if you meet one of those people who can do that, that also means that they went through the same phase that you were when they were just relying on good fundamentals in order to beat people up, but they’ve taken it farther.
I bet my right nut that Alex Valle beats my scrubby ass even if he crippled himself to only use normals, special moves and throws because he has such solid fundamentals and yomi.
What I wanna say is that you don’t have to be able to do sick combos, kara cancels and option selects in order to dominate most of the player base (at least online), but nobody in the game tells you.
If I had not sat down, read the footsies handbook and 12 hours worth of James Chens ramblings, I wouldn’t have known that and thought “Well, fuck I guess I’m too old and slow for this game”.
In that sense I think the guy you quoted is absolutely right, it’s only when your fundamentals aren’t enough anymore because your opponents have roughly the same knowledge just way better execution in order to simply win by out damaging you, when you should start working on that shit.
Or when it gets harder for your to improve your fundamentals than if it would be to improve your execution or strategy.
That’s one of the beauties of SF that it has so many different categories of skill.
There’s many ways to get good.
You can be dumb as rock and just be able to do sick combos and have amazing execution and reflexes and do well,
or you can be a strategist who is able to analyze matchups very well and formulate a great gameplan quickly,
or you can be good at footsies and yomi and play with the mind of your opponent to do well.
Every person is different, everyone has different strengths and you can get very far if you’re concentrating on either of these things.
Obviously when you’re a pro or reach a certain level, only having concentrated in one of these strength won’t be enough to compete anymore and it all meshes together, but even the absolute best players have very distinctive styles and strenghts/weaknesses you can observe.
Thing is nobody fucking tells you any of that and even more basic stuff like cross up attacks remain a mystery to the noob who gets beaten down by a guy 50pp higher than him on his first match.