Thank you for the timely response, however, according to frame data start-up is both 5 frames, so how was it nerfed if at all? According to frame data it was untouched.
Also did guile get any new anti airs in this game? I didn’t play him in vanilla.
Guile’s Frame Data Super Street Fighter 4 : EventHubs.com
^ Unless data is incorrect.
Standing Close Hard kick is apparently close to-but-not-exactly, godlike. Play with that, report what ya find.
priority seems lower, but not by much at all.
Here’s an interesting discussion… covering df.hk’s uses in full. Correct me if I’m wrong, but with df.hk being able to juggle into backfist almost anywhere for 230 damage, Guile has the most damaging, non-trade, meterless anti-air in the game now, with the ability to take a quarter of a life bar from some characters just from a bad jump. We should be trying to land this more.
First off, I have to ask that aside from the juggle ability of it, was anything for sure, genuinely changed about it from vanilla? I believe frame data-wise it remained consistent, but I remember many people believed that it’s hitbox felt better. We all know it’s main issue is it’s low active frames, meaning you have to bullseye it, but I am curious if it got a bigger hitbox to help it land.
Now for a small write up by matchup. I still only have experience using this in real matchups in Vanilla… but I do have a lot of experience using it, since I always tried to land it because, in all seriousness, it “looks silly.” That’s why I’m curious about the hitbox though, if it’s easier to land… then oh snap.
Honda: Very useful. If you haven’t thrown a boom and he jumps, it seems easy to land or AT LEAST trade in your favor. Can also tag a nj.hp, although this seems harder to do. Can use the OS c.lk > c.lk + df.hk to tag a backdash, although I don’t know why Honda would want to backdash on wakeup.
Zangief: Useful. Seems he can outprioritize it often with his early j.mk, but if you thrown a jab boom and walk behind it and he jumps, it’s pretty easy to land. Has good range to tag empty jumps too, but be careful. Can use the OS c.lk > c.lk + df.hk to tag a backdash… not that you should ever be in Gief’s face though.
Rufus: Very useful. Seems like this is just perfect for divekicks over booms. Hitting his normal jumping attacks, namely j.hp, seems hit or miss and may not be worth trying at far away jumps. If he likes to use non-EX messiah kick to get over booms, this can tag that as well, but you need some gdlk reactions. Can use the OS c.lk > c.lk + df.hk to tag a backdash… may be useful when he doesn’t have meter and you want to apply some wakeup pressure.
Dhalsim: Useful. Primarily because you can use the OS c.lk > c.lk + df.hk to tag a backdash, and backdashing is a pretty useful option for sim.
Boxer: Mildly useful. There’s a particular range where df.hk will tag his j.hp. It’s pretty much at max range, don’t attempt it otherwise.
Viper: Mildly useful. Only use I’ve found is a max screen super jump > hk burn kick. Any other use will probably result in you getting vortex’d.
Fuerte: Mildly useful. Only use I’ve found is that it’s a safer option to try to punish a wall jump than forward jump > air throw. Possible use of pre-emptively backdashing when in tortilla range (run back hp) and then df.hk’ing his recovery when he falls short.
Ryu/Ken/Akuma: Bad. Can tag bad jumps, but their variety of good jumping attacks can make it not worth your time. Akuma’s air fireballs are also a deterrent. Possible use of being able to tag a tatsu if it passes over your head… needs testing. Can use the OS c.lk > c.lk + df.hk to tag a backdash, but why would you ever do this to these guys?
Chun/Claw/Blanka: Bad. Their jumps are just too quick or too steep and they have good air-to-ground attacks that stuff df.hk (air throw still awesome though). I will say that now I will probably use df.hk to punish whiffed blanka vertical rolls though… since he recovers so fast once he’s on the ground. Yes, I know you can hit chun out of Hazanshu with df.hk… come on, is this really practical?
Sagat: Maybe? Seems like his j.mp elbow would be a deterrent, but i honestly haven’t tried it much. Can use the OS c.lk > c.lk + df.hk to tag a backdash, but not sure why your in sagat’s face on wakeup.
Dictator: Maybe? I’ve never really bothered trying it here. It might be good, but it seems his jump has an arc that isn’t suitable for df.hk. I could be wrong. Probably the go-to tool to punish psycho crushers that cross you up and his U1.
Abel: Maybe? Just seems like his jumps stuff it whenever I try it. Anyone have input on this? Can use the OS c.lk > c.lk + df.hk to tag a backdash.
Guile: Maybe? I don’t play enough Guile mirrors, but I don’t see why this wouldn’t work unless the Guile used j.lp a lot. J.lp would probably stuff GHK. Can use the OS c.lk > c.lk + df.hk to tag a backdash though.
That’s it for the arcade roster, anyone with more experience with newer characters should put in your 2 cents. If I had to guess, it would work alright on T-hawk and Hakan, has potential with Guy’s floaty jump, Fei long, Dan, Dudley, Gouken, Makoto, Rose, Gen, and Dee Jay, but seems useless against Cammy’s jumps (although a spin knuckle and hooligan punish seems possible), Cody’s priority, and Seth, Juri and Adon’s air wankery, although it may be worth trying to tag a Seth walljump considering his low health.
Anyone done much testing on the new cast?
can someone post the hitbox images for the df.hk? I havent seen those anywhere (same goes for the s.mk too actually)
I love the idea of the high kick, but online… its pretty dicey to use it because of how slowly it comes out + lag
i hate playing online, but 9/10 times I play, thats where I am…
df.hk works well on anyone if you’ve conditioned them to expect air throw. say you air throw vega 2-3 times in a row, he’s probably pretty frustrated at this point, so the next time he jumps he might throw out something really early to beat it, like j.mp or j.mk. if you wait on the ground it’s pretty easy to react to a early whiffed jumping normal with df.hk. however in this scenario if he does not whiff something, you are forced to block.
GHK can definitely tag a whiffed tatsu…I seent it.
Seems like this makes sense for Gief too. However, I have trouble seeing it on Claw. His jump just seems too vertical and too quick. Even if you were 100% on him sticking out an early air attack, it seems like it would be hard to time the GHK to connect with his then-empty jump hitbox. I’ll play around with the concept though, I haven’t tried to condition an opponent this way ever. I’ll have to play around with it.
Only thing I’m worried about with the tatsu is getting hit by the back of his foot during GHK’s slow-ass startup. I think the real test is trying it consistently in real matches.
I had it came out df.hk came out autocorrected and hit Ryu’s tatsu clean without trading before in Vanilla, but the timing is quite strict. Was holding db and press kick when he just passes over Guile’s head. But sometimes if your timing is slightly out, it’ll whiff.
I think the most important thing to use df.hk as AA is the distance followed by executing it early enough. It’ll most likely trade if the distance is right but you do it a bit late.
As for Chun, Blanka and Claw, I’ve had df.hk hit them clean at times. But again, it must be far and high enough. AAing also depends on when the opponent hits the button and what buttons he press so it’s really hard to tell if it works on particular characters. I have also hit many Ryus and Kens’ jump hk clean with it in Super but in Vanilla, it’ll most likely be stuffed by their hk.
Maybe can try AAing Sim when he jumps hp and see if it’ll trade and if it does, I think Guile can dash forward > backfist. You can catch him when he teleports behind you with it too.
I’ve used ghk vs. whiffed tatsu a few times - genius.
I’ll try to remember to post the hit-box images for it tonight.
***GHK > backfist. ***I played one of the sagat players offline and it was kind of funny when he complained how how much damage this takes off (230) and how “broken” it is.
Even when the GHK traded, I still landed the backfist and then he kept saying how unfair that is. I turned around and said, "In vanila, Sagat can do an anti air F+HK twice then ultra for over 50% of your life. You tell me whether that is fair or not. Sagat was way overpowered in vanila" :PP
But i do have to agree that Guile has a slight (not much) advantage against sagat, because his super metre increases faster plus the buffs he got make him a top tiered character. Cross ups continue to be a problem for him though
LOL just remove flash kick and give GHK invincibility frames LOL. (I thought it was funny…!)
Okay, so GHK doesn’t have that high priority, just letting yall know that. the mindgame centered around it (throw it out or not) and the angle it hits at doesn’t exactly give you any other mixup options if you’re not stationary (if u move and lose ur charge u lose AA mixup)
Imo guile’s not top tier, his fk priority is low, crossups rape him, okay walkspeed, hp and BELOW average stun ala, no superior stats (and one inferior one). thus crossups and knockdowns set him up for stun. no reversal if walking back.
Character does not go to top ranks from being at the bottom of the barrel with a few nice buffs.
Hello all,
So I’ve searched far and wide to find the hitbox data for Guile in SSF4. I found a link for a torrent of the entire cast but the link is broken. Is there anyone that has this information thats willing to post a new thread with pictures of each of his moves, something similar to this thread from the bison forums…
http://shoryuken.com/f260/ssf4-bison-hitbox-230065/
Any help on acquiring this information would be very much appreciated. And yes I searched first and I wasn’t able to find anything, so please do respond with a smart ass response if there is already a thread about this.
i dont think anyone has the guile hitbox data, otherwise they would have posted it a long time ago.
Yea thats kind of what I figured… darn.
Switch your main to M.Bison.
You won’t need Guile Hitboxes anymore, you’ll have all the Hitboxes for your new main!
Is the sarcasm necessary? The guy just had a question.
**
There was talk about doing a hitbox thread when the torrent first showed up, but I guess no one followed up on it. My way would involve GIFs, and would take some time. Unfortunately, this forum does not allow embedded picture anymore so everything would be linked.**
Thank you Slinkun.
I have to say I’d love to have the hitbox information in any form, but if anyone has the original videos I would actually prefer either still pics of the key parts of the animation, or just the videos. Because GIFs wouldn’t allow me to pause and look closely at the parts of the animation I’m interested in. I think having a thread on this would be immensely helpful, and I would have started one myself if I had downloaded the videos before they disappeared. Also if anyone has the videos and just doesn’t to take the time to go through and take screen shots of them please get them to me (via some way of transferring large files, filedropper etc…) and I’d be more than happy to go through and take screen shots and start the thread myself.
Chill. I was just kidding, if you read the Guile forums even a lil’ bit you’ll know I’m a highly technical player and want the data as much as the next fella.
I really wanna just see it for GHK mainly. That thing loses to everything.
Oh and fyi, played my good Honda friend today (Shimetsu) and he was beating out GHK.
I’d set it up early, late, to trade, and it’d always get beaten out. To the lab! huh…
df/hk works nicely vs the majority of the cast. the trick is to use it sparingly (unless your op is always jumping in with a move that you know df.hk beats. in that case…abuse the fuck out of it lol).
also, don’t use it at any time you could be heavily punished for fucking it up (i.e 2 bars and ultra).