You have to tech his throw very late. I used to always get grabbed by his back throw too, until I found out that mashing crouch tech later than usual helps. Backdash also punishes his throw attempts with s.hp.
LOL, bro, I mash OS tech throughout all the animation. and I still get grabbed. but you are right, it has to be done a little bit late, I cant figure out exactly when because every enemy I play has a totally different latency.
right…i’m really struggling with the guy match up. his animation plus even minimal lag make teching his throw after a flip annoying at the best of times. i did read the tips on page one too.
to be perfectly honest i don’t even know the basic rules for dealing with his stuff for absolute certain.
i know you can’t be bushin grabbed if you’re crouching. but if you try to anti air him with cr.hp and the flip whiffs, he seems to have enough time to throw you for free. i find it really hard to react to guy in general to be honest.
i thought this match was really easy for guile because i was playing guy’s who were good with a lot of aspects of guy’s game. BUT they didn’t know how to do that bushin jab move properly. the last 2 guy players have raped me with this move. the minute i think i’ve figured out what to do, they then decide to go for the j.mk cross up and i get beat even worse. like what’s the percentage move on that bushin jab? trying to anti air it? blocking and back dashing? or blocking and attempting to tech?
i have no idea which of his moves are safe or unsafe other than the slide. he’s starting to piss me off.
also, who counters him nicely? i want to try my luck with another character vs guy. i get the feeling that this isn’t a good match for guile regardless of how well you know how to play it.
Guile has advantage over Guy. Just try not to stay on the ground most of the times when he does the flip. You can jump forward airthrow slightly earlier if he’s just starting the flip, or jump back/nj hp if he is reaching you. Jump back airthrow works well too even if he’s just descending from his arc. C.hp isn’t that good as he’ll have to be almost right on top of you for it to hit. You can use it when you’re confident he’ll flip right on top of you.
I find using normals to AA his flip doesn’t work as well as using air to air attacks in this matchup. The only normals I use to AA him are df.hk(when he tries to stop his flip with elbow to catch your whiff c.hp) and c.hp when I think he’s gonna throw me with the flip. I try to jump and AA him the rest of the times. Airthrow works very well against him but loses to his ex airthrow. I think his ground game is scarier. Just go air to air with him.
erm…cant he just air throw you in mid air if you start jumping? guy is like one of the only characters i don’t use.
air throw is definitely effective against guy
Whose airthrow wins depends on when you and him press airthrow and when you jump. Normally I get airthrown by him are the times I try to airthrow his lp flip. I would say to jump later and airthrow if you keep getting airthrown by him. The point airthrow grabs him when Guile hasn’t reach the top of his jump and Guy is just starting to descend. Out of 10 air to air situations with Guys I’ve played, the most number of times he’ll be able to hit me is twice. Maybe the Guys I’ve played doesn’t have good air to air game.
And the elbow drop can be backdashed and then use s.hp to hit him if you’re on point and he uses elbow early during his flip. If he tries c.mp > lp flip xx throw, I think I’ve done front dash to land behind him and punish before.
ok now i think i know why i’m losing. i was scared to go in the air because i thought his bushin grab and air throw beat everything guile could do if they expected guile to be in the air. i’ll have to try this out next time.
but this is the one part where i’m confused. can you be bushin grabbed in the air or only air thrown? if it’s both, does guile’s air throw have priority over guy’s bushin grab…and goes about even with guy’s air throw?
I’m pretty sure he can bushin grab you in the air if he expects you to jump AA him. But I seldom get bushin grabbed. Normally if they airgrab me, it’ll be the ex izuna drop at the top of Guile’s jump. So that’s why I always try to jump later to airthrow him but the timing has to be so that he hasn’t pressed bushin grab to throw you on the ground. If you jump too late, I think you will get bushin grabbed during Guile’s jump before Guile’s airthrow can grab him if he presses grab to throw you on the ground.
Assuming Guile’s jump is a semi circle, the times I usually got bushin grabbed were about 1/4 of a semi-circle when Guile tries to jump. I normally grab them anywhere between the 1st quarter to the 2nd quarter circle.
It could be that your opponent is better than mine though. I think Guile will have to mix up between ground AA and air to air when fighting good Guys who knows when you’re gonna jump and AA them. I’m also wondering whether Guile can punish his elbow nudge move on the ground.
More info on the Adon Match - won 50% of the matches that i played against a fairly solid opponent (who added me to his XBL contacts).
***EX jaguar kicks - ***this has to be blocked high. Many times i got knocked on my ass after blcoking this one low.
***Jaguar kicks ***- can be blocked low. safe on block and is used to lock opponents down. From experience his option selects after you block this are throw, jaguar knee, another block string. If the block string consists of C LP C MP > Jaguar kick, you can flash kick him between the C MP > Jaguar kick.
Adon’s with good execution can jaguar kick you on reaction to sonic booms, so mix up speeds and timing is the key. S HP or backfist is a good quick counter attack if the jaguar kicks whiff.
His standing HK is a very good pressure tool and hits twice for good damage.
His special moves (ie jaguar tooth, Jaguar Kick and air jaguar kick are all armour breaking), which means fishing for FA’s or even landing an FA can be tricky.
another one of Adon’s tricks is when he lands saya J HK and then cancelling into the air jaguar kick. lucky the air version isnt an overhead otherwise this matchup can be much harder than first thought. Overall, selecting the right normals or footsies is another key aspect.
@ rexell yea i’ve been playing a russian tourney player who used guy. he beat me pretty convincingly. when i asked him what i was doing wrong, he said something along the lines of: “not too much at all really, just you were eating too many combos. from my experience of guile i think guy beats him pretty easily.”
so is everyone of the opinion that every time you anticipate he’s going into the air to attempt an air throw? i’m trying to work out some percentage plays because it seems like he has an answer for fucking everything. being able to bait and punish a whiffed cr.hp is hurting me badly lol.
which brings me to something else actually. i think it’s pretty annoying that they’re making even more tweaks to the game so now we have to learn all the matches over again.
@ Wikum:
The common problem when facing Guy (other than dealing with some of his blockstrings and stuff) is how you effectively anti air him.
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He can beat the Cr.hp by jumping and doing early elbow just outside the cr.hp range, for a whiff punish. However you can beat this tactic by using Standing fierce at him ( You can even sneak in Guile high Kick or Sonic hurricane as he falls :P).
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However if he knows you will use standing fierce, he can switch to jumping heavy kick, which loses to Cr.hp but beats standing fierce.
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Although an early air throw beats both options, it loses to early air throw by Guy.
As you can see, you are left with a very strange rock paper sccissors (fail spelling =.=) game when anti airing, but thank God you can Flash kick him when needed (suprisingly no one expect Guile to flash kick, however you may need to time it so it wont get stuffed). After you beat him out of the air several times, he will be forced to resort to ground game and avoid his random air game.
I use random sonic huracanes against jumping adons and guys who like to jump from the wall. One thing I hate is adons nj.kick, that shit is 2x better than bisons nj.kick.
Guy players shouldn’t be abusing bushin flips too much. It’s not at Bison headstomp level of suckiness, but it can be punished if you’re looking for it. Bushin flips aren’t the best anti sonic boom too, it’s just a mixup when he has the advantage. Most Bushin flips can be cr.HP or airthrown. Guy’s who do this are definitely more on the newb level. With that said, you have to be careful when Guy has meter, because he nullify your midrange sb game. He also has a few tricks and shennanigans to deal with your poking game. I find that mixing up Guy with throws and cr.lk to be very effective. Guy is constantly taking risk in this matchup, and I find Guy players pretty willing to do random shit on wakeup. Alot of them love to throw out focus attacks when under pressure (because it’s so good). I find the best way to play him is to bully him with sonic booms, and walk forward. That way you screw up his spacing (a lot of his tools are spacing reliant). I find you can push him back into the corner, where he completely falls apart.
Relief letter by Monsterer-
I now have a decent guile and I can zone almost every character in the game but elf.
A week ago I decided to rank up on BP. So that means I am playing my lamest guile when I play ranked on PSN. I hardly lose any fight and when I do lose, it is usually to the same character. ELfuerte. I can understand me losing to 2500+PP elf but it seems that anyone regardless of skill points can easily put me to stun and get a win. I dont know if it has to do with me or if you really need the best connection(4-5 green bars) to be able to react properly against him. I consider myself good on reactions but I cant seem to read nor guess right against them when I play online. Playing 2 bar matches against the other characters is not a problem, I can eat an ultra and recover with half my life. Maybe I am making excuses because I cant beat elf with 70+% consitency like I beat the rest of the cast.
I so much remmember our good Warahk and indentify myself with him. It doesnt matter how skilled your guile is, against a character like ELF I wouldnt mind tossing a coin in a tournment.
FUCK > ELF
END
Cross up happy player always destroy my Guile online.
Most of them will cross like 4~6 times before ending it up with throw and cross up happy again
Any advice on this? too afraid to throw cr.HP online due to heavily punishable on whiff 
There are only two options: Block or lk Super. There isn’t much Guile can do to stop wake-up cross ups.
Note: late lk fk FADC sometimes work but the risk is huge.
It’s a great tool to keep in the pocket usually, but lk super doesn’t work if the opponent’s timing is good. You’ll get 1 grounded hit and be punished. I think they changed some of the startup stuff on lk super too in SSF4. It’s not as great a reversal as it used to be in Vanilla.
For Sim, if he teleports and you’re not in blockstun and have a down charge, don’t just s.hp him, FK him, more damage and you score a knockdown.
For Gief, if he picks the Siberian Blizzard ultra watch out for a bait. He’ll jump at you in FK range and do it just before an anticipated FK. If he times it right (or you time it wrong, depending on how you look at it), he’ll grab you out of the FK. Same goes for airthrows, so once he has ultra 2 stocked, use grounded AA like c.hp, s.mk, etc.
so i got to play one of the guy players that beat me (not the russian tourney player but another one). this time i abused air throw and beat him convincingly in one match. then came back from the death after he taunted me at a dizzy in the other. he then proceeded to kick me from the endless room and send me hate mail telling me how cheap i am. **mission complete. **
see what i didn’t realise is that:
you can tell a bushin grab is coming because guy makes a certain sound.
if he whiffs his air throw, it has way more recovery on it than guile’s. easily punishable.
bushin flip jab into st.jab into throw seems to give him huge frame advantage though. i tried to back dash it and just got thrown. could be because i was playing online…but the connection was good.
basically, guile’s risk/reward in the air is way better than i thought it was. having said that, this is still probably my worst match up right now.