Ok, I’ll practice this matchup a lot more. Great advice guys, thank you
the nearest way to judge this (if you consider yourself above average and able to play at a reasonably high level) is this:
try and keep a mental account of all the times you lose a few games to a player who you are pretty certain is an inferior player to you. like in vanilla, i’d lose to a load of crappy players using sagat. this game i seem to lose a lot less than in vanilla. the notable times i’ve lost to sub par players, turtle akuma’s and ultra 2 abel’s seem to stand out amongst the pack.
really nice thread slinkun. i havent played in awhile…
Great updated thread Slinkun! I have been waiting for this since Super hit back in April. Now we (the Guile community) need to help fill in the gaps. Good Sakuras are difficult for me in Super so any help there will be appreciated.
I think for SH to trade with Akuma’s air FBs, it’ll have to be done when he’s quite a distance away. If he’s about c.mk range and jumps and does FB immediately, I think it’ll be a lot harder to punish with SH on reaction as the FB hits you much faster. Those trades I have gotten in are those that are about half screen away. Walking back when you expect him to air FB makes the punish much more easier than crouching while he’s doing air FB. I think at high levels, Akuma is a 7:3 matchup. He tears Guile apart after a knockdown with his demon flip > option selects.
Here’s something that I’ve always been curious about: what matchups do you guys use s.mp as an anti-air for? I ask because I honestly never use the damn thing, and I remember how much my shoto matchup imporved when I started using s.mk for AA.
It seems to do about the same thing as far s.hp does in terms of AA, but it’s cancellable and does less damage. I also never liked it since sometimes I’d use it too close and the friggin hook would come out instead.
For that matter, where else do you folks use s.mk aside from the shotos with consistency? It’s another AA I feel that s.hp does a similair job for, but it’s abviously better against some jumping attacks.
I do use it on Zangief at times to mix it up on his jump ins.
The trick to using s.mp as anti-air is to get it to hit early like c.hp, but with a little more horizontal distance. I’ve had better success using it that way, with the exception of Rufus’ dive kick. You can s.mp late at the correct distance and it’ll still stuff dive kicks well without trading. S.mp works well against shotos too at correct distances and timing. I think it should be able to beat this but so far I got no success and will always trade on Zangief’s jump mk. I would use s.mp at certain distances on
Sagat’s elbow(stuffs elbow if done early at right distance without trade. Can try on Dudley’s elbow too.)
Boxer’s jump in hp(can’t be done if too far)
Rufus’ dive kicks annd jump hk/hp
Chun’s jump in
Bison’s jump in
Ken and Ryu’s jump in(I would say about shoto’s jump hp distance)
For s.mk, it’s one of the best anti-airs for jump ins from further ranges due to Guile’s head hitbox lowering during its active frames. I use it on
Shotos’ jump in
Bison’s jump in
Chun’s jump in
Abel’s jump in
Honda’s jump in
One thing I noticed about using s.mk is that it seldom gets stuffed. It’ll trade at least and the opponent is being reset and has to get in on you again which is good cos you’ll won’t have to eat a full combo. But I find the most important factor is that c.hp has longer recovery and if the opponent is fond of empty jumping to make you whiff, you’ll eat a full combo. Using s.mk eliminates that opening as it recovers a lot faster if you whiff.
And backwards sobat will beat Sagat’s jumping hk at max range clean. It’ll hit his legs.
Ya, the ability for s.mk to counter empty jump > c.mk is a big plus of that move. Another benefit of using it in the shoto matchup, is if they try change their trajectory with a tatsu, your s.mk will turn into a close s.mk, and still anti-air them clean.
I’m not surprised that it works well on those characters, except for chun… really? I need to fiddle around more with different grounded AA’s anyways. There’s a lot of questions that can only really be answered by playing around with it… like if s.mp or s.mk will beat or trade with abel’s j.lp or ryu’s j.hp, etc.
s.mp on Gen and Honda jump-ins all day… just learn the distance and timing for the uppercut version and you’re golden.
For Chun, the distance I’ve gotten it to work is when she tries to jump in from about 3/4 screen and you have to walk forward a bit to use s.mk. And it’ll trade with her jump hp if you’re a bit near to her. It beats/trades her jump lk at the correct distance. As for her jump hk, I’ve yet to find out which normal to stuff it if you’re not able to get under her jump.
honda
rufus
cammy (beats her j.hk)
also…forgive me if i’m wrong on this one…but i THINK that it’s handy against one or a couple of dhalsim’s jumping normals.
honda
rufus (i think)
gen (works well vs his jump arc)
balrog
dudley
guile
i think both s.mp and s.mk MIGHT be handy against both guy and adon too…but that’s one for the lab. (i get the feeling they might stuff air jaguar kick).
Stand Strong stops Abel’s jump-ins clean, be it far range or early cross-up.
Stand Short beats Blanka’s slide clean (old school ST trick).
just turtle and its a free win. i work for my wins thnx
^ I didnt understand this statement, ESPECIALLY the last sentence.
I assume a Ryu scrub/troll whose butt hurts just a bit
NICE! Great job. This makes me wanna dust off the controller and get back at it.
so guys and girls, whatever level you play at, who are you finding that guile steamrollers over? lets leave out the obvious ones like sakura and dan for example.
ok, so i may go into more detail in a follow up post…but recently i’ve beaten a lot of above average ryu’s, gouken’s, dudley’s and blanka’s with quite a bit of ease (without trying to sound boastful).
ryu vs 99% of online players is basically a 8-2 match for guile. dudley is 9-1 lol.
Perhaps have that discussion in a new thread or under another thread?
About the Adon matchup, today an Adon would EX-jagular tooth (off wall) on reaction to my boom. If I neutral jump Adon lands right behind me (proceed to rush down/throw game). So the next time he tried that I jumped backwards + mk. It tagged him, but I’m not so sure if it’s because he wasn’t blocking or because of the recovery. Is this a viable strategy? because blocking a tooth puts adon in a good position and anyway to prevent that is helpful.
ryu is an easy one for me now, the only ryus that beat me are the ones that run away and then suddenly they manage to get a srk fadc on an empty cross up.
Blanka is kind of hard for me, dunno why, I must be playing it wrong but once that bitch starts with mixups I cant tech any of its shit do too poor connection.
Duddle is free if you just mash jab low all of its atacks and throw boom
Akuma has gotten alot easier imo
abel is fucking worst, breathless is scary
elf will always be my nemesys
viper, you have to admire if you fight a decent one.
adon, lots of fierce punch here and there to ground the fucker
gouken, i cant tech good so you can imagine where half of my life goes if i get grabed