i’m really interested to see this match up at a real high level as i’m not really sure who wins it anymore. i think guile maybe still has the advantage. as far as i can tell, guile is the only character that she can’t out zone that she also has problems getting in on. for example, sagat and dhalsim out zone her, yet she can punish their fireballs on reaction. but guile’s sonic boom recovery time always gives her problems. but i think now that juri’s ultra 1 is buffed, she’s got the potential to be a problem for guile if she gets a knockdown. really looking forward to eventually seeing this in tournament.
i mained her for a while in super, but with guile being so good in that game, it didn’t last long. one of my main problems with juri back then was that her ultra 2 was too risky and her ultra 1 was shitty.
so anyways, i picked her up again on the first day of ae2012 and i think she’s a dark horse for top tier in this game. the dash on her new ultra 1 is pretty scary now. if you get someone to block a fireball and then input ultra one, you basically get a free mixup. two combos and they are at half health. it’s not quite genei jin but it’s not bad at all. she’s got a three frame crouching medium punch that’s not only great in block strings but also one of the best anti airs in the game. her close standing medium kick is really good now too.
Congratulations to you Di3mini0n. You keep leveling your guile everytime. You have not given up on him besides all the non favorable changes, your reputation has grown so that players who know the match, do not wish to run at you in the brackets.
Your Guile is increadible patient, lately I have seen how you maximize every single oportunity for maximum damage, you also make a not even match up look like it is. Respect man. I’ll keep following you. Is there a way WE, the guile forums can have some sort of calendar of the dates where we can watch you play tru stream?
i remember back in vanilla when i wasn’t as good at the game as i am now. i’d come on here and say 'how the fuck is guile - bison 7-3? i kept getting beaten by the really good ones. now i know exactly how to play the match, bison is so free. i’d go as far as to say guile beats him worse in this version than any of the other ones. the udk buff really hurts him probably more than any other character. if he focuses through booms, standing fierce/back fist. if he jumps, anti air. if he ex psycho’s to go through your booms, jump back hk into combo. all he really has to worry guile is tech throw gimmicks and counter hit st.hp. he has no real ambiguous setups, nor does he have great damage.
i think that when you speak of your average player, bisons and codys are all easy matches with Guile. However, everyone is on different levels, even with guile. When you play a Bison that is 5k PP or a Cody that is on Momochi’s level, you will feel that this is one of Guile’s worst matchups. The gimmicks, the setups, etc. Not sure if any of you have had the opportunity to play some of these people, but theyre out there and defy your 7-3’s in guile’s favor.
Thats cuz you’re not as good as them. Shit is only 7-3 when you’re equal skill. I fucking HATE it when people bitch and like. OH its not THAT bad IF the other person knows how to do X thing or Y thing. If they know how to do that then learn how to beat X or Y
what gimmicks does bison have to worry guile? dash up throw? then what’s he going to do? he doesn’t even have a measly overhead. akuma/abel/adon have gimmicks that take your entire life bar for one bad guess. sure his meaty cross up psycho crushers can be a pain, but they aren’t really too much to worry about.
guile-bison is 7-3 and i’m pretty sure that 90% of both guile and bison players would agree with this. it was far more even in a.e. in 2012, now that guile lost his counter hit nerf on booms, it’s back to being a horrible match for bison again. the udk buff only makes things worse for bison.
cody is a different matter altogether…i never said that match was 7-3. i think it’s most likely 6-4 in guile’s favour, which is a slight advantage for guile, but still very winnable for cody.
I have a lot of trouble with the Bison matchup sometimes, even against notably crappy ones. Honestly, to me it just feels like there’s a very particular way to fight Bison that is quite unlike other characters. You just have to play the matchup to your strengths vs his weaknesses and if you somehow ‘get it’… as in you figure out exactly what ranges to stay in, when exactly to down fierce, and when exactly to sonic boom, then suddenly it becomes very obvious that Bison can’t really do shit until you make a mistake. I personally have problems trying to play this matchup at a very distilled level, I’m always afraid of things when I shouldn’t be and I’m always trying to do too much. It takes a lot of recognition of Bison’s options at all given times and being able to shut them all down by being in the right place at the right time.
Ok so really all I said was ‘play the matchup’ lol
Since the match up seems so easy to you, it makes it much easier to screw up. You really can crouch fierce anything he goes at you with, I used to struggle but now I’ve really adapted and learned how to play it. What exactly are you having the most trouble with?
I win more often against good Codys rather than good Bisons. Lol maybe I’m the odd one out but I find Cody much easier to keep out than Bison and a much easier matchup. The thing I hate most in the Bison matchup is when I jump to airthrow his EX stomp on reaction but I got hit with it instead.
Cody is a tank, when he gets in it doesn’t take long for him to kill you. Cody also has some weird jump angles that can be difficult to anti air. Overall Guile wins, but Cody does have a good amount of health, and sonic booms don’t exactly do a lot of damage. Cody is kind of a balls out character. He’s going to be reckless and crazy trying to get in. He’s going to take a lot of risk. Problem with Cody is that Guile punishes him so well. But it’s hardly an easy matchup, especially when you’re playing against Codys who just don’t give a shit.
i’d put cody at about the same level, if not slightly below ken in terms of difficulty for guile.
i was intrigued by a discussion between sagat mains in the tier list thread. they all pretty much agreed that sagat was definitely at least A tier, even though they also thought that he had around 6-8 bad match ups. the characters they listed sagat having problems with were dudley, c.viper, abel, dhalsim, akuma, fei long, juri and adon.
in the same thread, it was also being thrown about that guile probably isn’t tournament viable because he has too many bad match ups (not by sagat mains but just srk in general). apparently he’s bound to run into an abel in tournament, which means he can never win one. well i say take out dudley, fei and juri, add el fuerte, ibuki and seth…and you notice guile pretty much shares a lot of the same bad match ups sagat does…yet sagat is considered high tier, whereas guile isn’t. in addition to that, i’d argue that the three matches i added as guile’s bad matches (seth/fuerte/ibuki) aren’t exactly a walk over for sagat either, yet guile pretty much beats or at least goes even with all three of dudley, fei and juri.
one of guile’s other problems in a.e were both of the twins. on the other hand, sagat was one of their tougher opponents. in ae 2012, i’d argue that guile probably beats both of them now…definitely yun. yang is a bit tougher.
i understand that sagat has huge damage and better comeback potential, therefore his bad matches are not as bad as they would be for guile. i just find it interesting that guile is so easily written off.
Abel isn’t a horrendous matchup, it’s more than winnable. Just keep in mind that you’re going to have to guess a few times, and take a few risk. You kind of have to pay attention to what to what the Abel player is actually trying to do, because even mixups have a pattern. There are 3 types of mixup players. Ones who want to keep knocking you down and crossing you up, ones who love their command throws, and ones who are really concerned about guaranteed damage. a lot of mixup players like to give up guranteed damage for resets, at this point it’s okay to guess. The ones who love command throws should be getting blown up anyway. And there are the ones who love guranteed damage (and this is the ones that are hard for Guile).
Overall, Abel is hard to keep out, but not impossible. Just keep in mind you are going to nick him bit by bit, and the opportunties to do big damage aren't going to always be there. However Abel is very susceptible to air throws. Those are hard knockdowns. I would definitely practice OS and meaty setups against him. Without meter he's a sitting duck, and has bad wakeup. In general, st.mp are going to be the better anti-airs in this match. Abel is only 6-4, and probably closer to the 5-5 realm. It's only really in Abel's advantage because Abel outdamages Guile. Abel IS a character Guile can keep out, you just need to be on your shit.
Honestly, you don’t see a lot of Guiles in tournaments because people suck with him. I have beaten nearly every Guile mirror I’ve had in a tournament, because people try to use Guile like he’s a different character. As a Guile player you are going to need pixel perfect spacing, and this is going to vary on matchups. A lot of people who pick up Guile kind of just learn combos, learn to chuck sonic booms, and learn how to just hit buttons with him, and they think they somehow have a competitive Guile. In reality, Guile doesn’t have THAT many bad matchups, he’s even nearly across the boards. The issue is that when you’re in on him, you’re in. So with Guile you need good defense, and SFIV players in general (even in a tounrnament setting) have poor defense. For those many reasons Guile is under utilized, because people find him easy and boring. And people who understand what’s needed to make him work usually rather use another character. Sagat does anything you need to do with Guile but slightly better (except footsies). But if you want better footsies, just pick Ryu. Some characters are not going to prevail in tournaments unless played by real masters. Ryu is pretty rare at high levels, as is Sagat.
Honestly braindead rushdown gets top at most tournaments. Why learn all this spacing with Guile when you can just grab C.Viper, learn FFF combos, and burn kick mixups and call it a day? I doubt 90% of the Viper players even learn matchups because in general they don’t have to. Wanna guess what character dominates tournaments?
i agree with most of what you’ve said. i remember even a year ago i’d play guile and try all this fancy shit. these days i’m as lame as it gets against good players. however, if i don’t think my opponent is on my level, i’ll take liberties just to have more fun.
and i agree with you when it comes to tournament level guile’s. even though i live in england, i watch loads of different american streams and follow the u.s scene way more than the european one. whenever i see random guile i’ve never heard of hit the stream, i’m always left disappointed. the fact that you can count the high level guiles in america on one hand is pretty sad.
good lord, I just fought an Adon player at an arcade yesterday and went something like 0-15.
Crossup harassment making flash kick escape impossible, jaguar kick going over everything and making air-grab worthless, jaguar tooth super good for getting in, mysteriously far reaching throw range (visually anyway). Ughhhhh… Adon feels so difficult to keep out without trading constantly and once he’s in it’s just stupid dp/throw/jump/jk mixup hell. At least 60% of my damage is based on my ability to react to JK with FK as often as possible which always seems to be just barely within my ability, especially with a little input lag it just makes it that much harder.
I later realized that particular arcade was actually running AE 2011… we thought they had changed to 2012 but apparently not… so I was playing 2011 Guile but strategy wise nothing was different. Though really, given the number of flash kicks I landed, it probably would’ve added up nicely in 2012…
REdwolfe is awesome, and has a lot of neat Gen tech. Too bad anytime I’ve played against him, he uses fuck around characters (but he’s good with anyone he plays). As far as Adon is concerned, backfist gives him nightmares. He can try to do that Jaguar wall dive, but your limbs can stuff it or trades. The matchup is definitely in Guile’s favor, but it’s stupid when adon gets in. I pretty much just play the standard Guile game, and when he get’s in backfish range, there is literally nithing he can do but take some massive guess. Adon doesn’t have that many great pokes, they’re alright, and annoying, but not solid. Guile wins the ground game, and he can keep Adon out the air. Also early cr.mp will sometimes beat jaguar wall dive clean if done early. It’s really important to pay attention how your Adon opponent is trying to get across the screen. TK Jaguar tooths are probably the most effective way (besides walking).
Again, smart use of cr.mp, and backfist wins this matchup. Backfist will stop guess jaguar tooth from optimal ranges. This matchup, IMO is best played just out of his sweep range, where he literally has no safe option.