I just cant give up those sweet normals, but I hear dj’s fierce and strong are pretty good.
The Elf matchup is just horrible. you get knocked down and its a rap…the one elf player kept crossing me up with the splashes smh ive tried to be mobile at all cost its just Elf players can play sooo wack sometimes.
Guiles normal gameplan is bunk vs fuerte, it usually turns into a flippin chaotic guessing game.
Just what they like.
Elf can go die in a ditch and never come back in any other iteration of an sf game. I hate having to play like a flipping spaz just to win against him.
if someone does an obvious jump in, the damage from comboing medium dread kicks into hard dread kicks is pretty sweet.
also, if you go with ultra 1, when you get full super bar, you can do medium punch, medium sobat, activate super, ultra 1…and even on block this does something like 250 chip damage. i’ve watched quite a few japanese deejay players…he’s definitely not as bad as people like to make out. it’s hard for unpopular characters to reach their full potential because more high level players are gravitated towards better characters. it would be nice to see some of the top level players rocking lower tier characters in tournaments from time to time, but it’s never gonna happen. i respected justin wong using fei/makoto when they were considered low tier.
in theory, it’s pretty similar to the seth match. guess right, max punish. mind games. bait him with focus attack…make him want to fajita buster. air throw is a must. punish blocked splash with sweep. his wakeup options are awful when he has no meter or ultra…that’s when you want to be on the offensive imo.
when he does have meter on his wakeup, do you really want to be attacking el fuerte? fuck no. you probably should be turtling. but here is a risk/reward opportunity if you really need to take it. he’s most likely going to ex run out. the good players will usually ex run back, leaving you both safe…but you got him to burn meter. if he tries to attack you from wakeup ex run, you can do meaty crouching lp, then back dash. only one of his options beats that (ex run into splash), and i think even this can potentially whiff if he fucks up. the rest of his options will leave you safe and/or the chance at a huge punish. so if you succeeded (the fuerte went for something other than ex splash), what’s the fuerte saying to himself? probably something along the lines of “next time i’ll ex splash you for doing that”…right? well next time you go for meaty cr.lp straight into focus attack…and now fuerte is down another 300 hp.
so actually, you can fuck with him on his wakeup just like he can fuck with you. obviously his options are better, but the majority of his options aren’t safe either.
yes, the match is in his favour, but i honestly don’t have as much trouble with him as i do with adon, seth, abel or c.viper. i played a very high level fuerte recently…probably the most high skilled one i’ve ever played (in terms of setups and execution). we went pretty even overall.
adon is a character that makes me want to pull my hair out, especially online because if there’s any hint of lag, standing fierce trades/loses to his wall dive…when offline, standing fierce all day. but regardless, adon is a huge problem for guile imo. he pisses all over guile’s wakeup with ambiguous setups, has good damage, good normals, safe pressure, a dp, a counter hit setup that will make you not press buttons (free throws), an ex move that hits crouching, beats sonic boom on reaction and can be comboed into a dp/standing hk if you’re in the corner…one knockdown and you’re back to all this again.
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Be on the lookout for a new E.Ryu unblockable that works only on Guile, and is pretty easy. It’s DP > FADC > overhead kick w/ HK > wiff c.HK > crossup HK. There’s 2 ways to get out of it. Hold up(you’ll probably just get DP’d here), or hold F(the direction E.ryu came from) and press s.LP. It will cause the unblockable to wiff. The timing of this is extremely tight.
Does anyone know if its even a good strategy to use crouch tech against Balrog in close proximity? i.e. after a sweep… its guile’s 4 frames vs Rog’s 3 frames… wouldnt i get counterhit? i fought a Rog tonight that was nailing me with CH… i would get the tech when he tried to throw but i dont think crouch tech is a good idea here.
Thoughts guys?
as dumb as this sounds, your only option is to block and tech correctly until you have something to punish or get him away from you. what you’ve just described is basically rog’s food and drink. the trick is to not let him get that near in the first place…and i know that doesn’t sound like much help, but it’s just the way it is. in the corner, rog wins the match. he can sit in sweep range and guile can do absolutely nothing about it other than try risky gimmicks to get the fuck out. dieminion is probably one of the best guile’s when it comes to dealing with being in the corner, yet p.r rog absolutely owned him once this was the situation.
when you mention “tech correctly” you mean regular tech right? not OS crouch tech…
Thought i would also add this in light of Gilley’s post above. Something to be aware of when fighting Akuma and Evil Ryu… i wonder if guile could perform this sort of setup somehow?
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teching is just common sense and experience. You have to learn to read your opponent’s tendencies. If they play Balrog and seem to be focused on frame trapping you, then just block and flashkick out of the corner. Balrog offense isn’t that great, but his space control is pretty awesome. Balrog really wants you to get desperate to escape. I’ve spent entire rounds in the corner against Balrog, who couldn’t damage me because I generally knew how to poke them out, and read whenever they were going in for a throw. Balrog wins the footsies war pretty convincingly, but you have options. Remember MOST balrogs want to be in sweep range, because they can do their sweeps relatively safe, and whiff punish any of your low attacks. It’s also the optimal range for them to jump in at. What you don’t want to do against Balrog is get impatient. Balrog vs Guile matches are generally pretty long and drawn out, especially if Balrog is defensive. Against more aggressive Balrogs, you have to know which pokes eat him up. Generally Balrog struggles with the following pokes:
cr.lk
st. HP
backfist
cr.mp, foward sabot, and st.lk works in some situations. Forward sabot is something you’re going to usually get on a good read from a max range sweep from Balrog. st.lk is good for stuff sweeps when you predict them. Basically I’d say footsies with Rog is pretty much rock, paper, scissors. cr.jab, cr.lk (somtimes) all pretty much stops his sweep. But at the same time if you whiff then you’ll eat a dash straight. Be careful with backfist too, a lot of decent Rogs tend to guess jump over them.
The best range to play this is no surprise, full screen. At that point you can pretty much predict and stop what Rog is trying to do. Rog has a REALLY hard time getting in from full screen away, and it's hard to get him all the way across the screen. Remember, when the match starts, he's usually just out of sweep distance. Be careful about Rogs walk speed as well, he can close the distance fast. And remember to switch up your sonic boom timing to keep him off guard. Remember, Rog can't get in without a good read or a guess. So just try to predict when he's about to take a risk and counter accordingly.
Rogs do complain this is 6-4 Guile’s favor, I think it’s more 5/5. Rog does have to take risk, BUT he gets a lot of reward for taking risk. Guile has to take some risk when Rog is on him, but the reward is that you reset the distance, and set up Rog for counter situations more often. Fighting Rog mid range is really the problem since he has much better guesses at that range, and his footsies are far superior to Guile’s.
I feel bad for Guile players who may have picked up Guile in AE 2012, or just plain AE. Back in vanilla Balrog competition was all over the place, now he isn’t seen as often.
Main problem I have with rog is when he DOES jump in, his fierce is really hard to AA. I swear I can only trade with it at best on any normals.
Don’t let trades discourage you. There is a big weakness that Balrog has in this match, and that’s is he is always walking forward. This means he’s pretty much losing charge, when you always are sitting one one. Remember you do have a flash kick, a lot of Guiles forget to AA with it. You have to be smart, and you have to time them, but flashkicks are actually a really reliable anti air for Balrog. If Rog is jumping in at a weird range, and you have a charge, toss it out. Remember though, that you are basically anti airing his arms, and not his full body. Also remember, his legs have no hitbox when he’s in the air, so he has some really awkward jump timing. It’s by design, because if Rog had a floatier jump or a more normalized jumping hitbox, he’s lose pretty bad to projectile characters. I’d say find a decent Rog, and grind it out with him to get use to him. There is tons of spacing you have to get use to in this matchup, and sometimes there are only a few pixels difference between eating a jumping, trading, and beating it clean. Here are some useful tips when it comes to AAing Rog:
AA early - can’t stress this enough
At max range jumps, do Guile’s GHK it works well against Rog
There are some situations at closer ranges that GHK will actually trade in your favor (you can still followup), but I haven’t seen this situation enough to do it reliably.
cr.mp works sometimes too from sweep range jumps with height on them. Sometimes you will just narrowly avoid his arm and AA his torso as he lands
FLASHKICK -works well against Rog
REMEMBER, Rog has a hard time safejumping Guile
Sometimes a simple standing jab will stuff Rog’s jumps at close range. Not great damage, but at least you can check him
Other great tips versus Rogs.
Remember Balrog has a big issue with crossups as well. If you get a hard knockdown, remember to exploit this.
Bait out jabs with stagger strings. Remeber to do max range jabs and end it with a standing fierce, it will beat out cr. jabs in most cases.
Remember to meaty a meterless Rog’s wakeup. His headbut has a lot of startup and no invinciblity. Remember you can meaty him with cr.lk.
Pressure Balrog who has no meter. I don’t mean go nuts on him, but stay in his face and harass him with pokes, and space him out with sonic boom pressure. Remember, Rog really needs to work with space, his wakeup is subpar, and he really doesn’t want you pressuring him. Respect his jump and jab range, but don’t give up any ground.
Early cr.mk, and st.HP beats dash punches clean (somtimes you get counter hits).
Remember to flashkick and throw his ex dash punches (though good rogs won’t rely on this as much.
THROW, THROW, and THROW Rog. If you pressure Rog with a strong, do a late grab. A lot of Rogs love to toss out random ex dashpunches on wakeup as a way to re-establish momemtum. Throw him will give you some oki that he has to pretty much respect.
Blow up empty jumps with air throws and GHK.
Somtimes it’s good to fish for counterhits with cr.mp, a damn good poke to keep pressure on, and great for focus baiting
Good luck with the matchup. Been playing this matchup way too much for the last 3 years.
This is an excellent post man. At times i’ve struggled with this match up, but i have become much better. The trouble lies in trying to read their throw in close proximity. This is where i get owned unfortunately.
You mention three specific moves however dont mention the most important ones i find to work: cr HK.* If used upon reaction to his dash punches*, once Rog throws an EX dash punch through a sonic boom, a sweep will land guaranteed 100 damage and knock him down. Not only that, but the GHK juggle works the same way if you time it right, of course which you can follow up with backfist. I find that these two are imperative in maximizing damage in this match up.
make sure to read above. it works man.
Eduardo aka PRBalrog thinks Guile vs Balrog is 7-3 after our matches at NECXII and promises to never play that match in tourney again.
Guile vs. Dhalsim is 5-5 in 2012.
T Hawk vs. Guile is 5-5 if not slightly in Hawk’s favor.
Fuerte still beats Guile, not sure how much more worse it is.
Evil Ryu beats Guile even w/o the unblockable, i’d say 6-4.
I think Guile’s best un-nerf was the removal of counter-hit during boom. It makes the Sim match-up even. Hawk can change his jump arc which makes any match-up annoying for Guile. It’ll take a player better than Min to exploit that, maybe KoujiKOG not to discredit Min but he has a lot of room for improving.
And that 1 match vs. Min I lost focus. I need headphones, I swear it sounds like US vs Japan when I’m playing at that place.
This match up is NOT fair at all. I went to FF and i had to play Rayart in losers and lucky me i beat him with guile…The match is soooooo random its like you have to match ELF randomness smh
How should guile approach the guy matchup? people say just spam SB but its really not all that easy…I spam SB they have the option to slide or jump off the wall and catch me with that flip…That high arc crossup is a killer 
bison does the samething and i keep getting baited for it.
I don’t throw sonic booms at all. I personally just try to be annoying and jump around a lot. only when I’m full screen, I’ll actually throw a few. But for the most part I just jump forward and back all match, and chicken jump all day. Not the best advice, but basically you know you’re in for a big guessing game, so you may as well just do stuff. Playing the ground, or trying to be solid doesn’t work well in this matchup, no matter how on point you are. Staying a moving target tends to frustrate Elf players, at least in my experience.
Yea i know now to just be just as random and alil wreckless againts that character.