We’re covering Hakan on our livestream for character analysis tonight at 9pm EST. Might want to pass by and check it out. Give you a better grasp as to how Hakan works.
jumps have throw protection
i’m not liking the new blanka. i lost to an insanely average one earlier, and that’s usually a sign to me that the match got worse (along with me playing shitty too).
^hakan still has some bad matches, but yeah, I have a little trouble with him as ken, only advice I really have is DON’T LET HIM OIL UP…hey, we played a few ranked matches as OnlineGarbage, has some GG’s…
I was thinking of learning Guile as a back-up to Ken. Does Deejay fair better in matchups? he looks to have a better mix-up game than Guile from the vids I watched.
DJ has a solid mix-up game, he just has nothing else. His fireball is ass and he has very predictable block strings. He also has one of the worst comeback games, as his U2 can be hard to setup. Still, I like using him! Just wish they gave his slide a buff so he could advance faster and throw more projectiles.
the thing with deejay though is that his shit works how its supposed to…for the most part. they should have let him have ex sobat to ultra 1 like they originally planned in testing. all they had to do was leave it in but nerf the damage a little and he would’ve been viable. perhaps buff his fireball a bit too. ultra 2 does nice damage but its too unreliable and execution heavy for most.
Deejay can’t do shit if you jump once you see his fb animation. If you get the timing and distance right, he can’t j.hp you, can’t slide, can’t hk, can’t c.hp safely and at best trade with his s.mp. And furthermore, everyone knows he’s free to low attacks on knockdown. Almost any character can pretty much abuse these 2 things on Deejay.
These are weaknesses I’ve experienced while I was testing out Deejay back when AE was just released. Is there something I’m missing out on his AA game here?
His AA game is very position-related. I’ve found that it trades often unless you half-anticipate a jump. His mediocre fireball means he’s also forced to rushdown at some point, which involves his kneeshot. The problem is you have to give up charge to start it, and his attacks in general are very predictable. His block strings are pretty much jab x 200 into cr. mk, and if not that then some kind of tick-throw. He has no overhead, his slide is still too slow compared to ST, and he has a poor comeback game marked by his difficult EX MGU xx U2 setup. Hell, I see pros dropping the inputs for that move and instead settling for EX Dread Kicks just for the certainty. And, as you mentioned, he’s completely free to crouching attacks on wake-up unless he has U1. But even then, most Dee-Jays are using U2. His jacknife, which is a good AA, can be beat clean by jumping attacks and also gets killed by safe-jumps.
His positives would be that he has a great cross-up and and good knockdown capabilities (cr. mk is great). He’s also a pretty unique character.
so…what’s everyone’s impressions of guile in this game so far? imo he’s probably a notch below the very top line of characters. i’d really like to see more high level videos of this incarnation in a tournament setting before i pass full judgement. i don’t think dieminion’s constant domination of big two is a good gauge, mainly because he was winning consistently during a.e too.
the feeling amongst the japanese is that the top tier consists of ryu, sagat, viper, abel, seth and akuma, with possibly rufus in and around that level too. these were some of the most used characters back in vanilla…so it seems that we’ve gone full circle. however, the difference between this game and vanilla is that the gap between this level of characters and the one below it is very small. there are so many characters who are viable now.
He’s definitely not top tier, that’s for sure. I’d say he’s probably B+ or around there? Reason is he has trouble with Akuma, Seth, Viper, Abel - the top tier. Also, I’ve never fully believed that he beats Sagat, even dating back to ST. A lame Sagat who matches each boom with a tiger shot is a nightmare.
He’s only EVER beat Sagat in super with his ridiculous super meter building.
I could see that. Its just that I’ve often read people saying he’s a bad match for Sagat. I always wondered how? A charge character will always lose a fireball war to a QCF character, and then there’s the fact that Sagat’s tigershot is probably the 2nd best projectile in the game. So yeah, makes perfect sense to me. 
Anyway, he loses to pretty much the whole top tier minus Ryu. I say he’s a solid B+ tier.
EDIT: I think his match with Ryu is even. I’m thinking back to ST and HDR, where Ryu beat Guile around 6-4. Guile with EX meter can be a huge pain for Ryu, but I feel a patient Ryu can make this 5.5-4.5 or even 5-5.
I’d agree with B+. He has mostly good match-ups across the board and all his buffs (particularly UDK) help a lot with his bad ones (which are only bad because A) he gets raped on wake/cross-up because of his turning problem and/or B) They out-damage him for some bizzare reason…)
So yeah, B+ sounds about right imo.
Moving back on to thread topic: I’ve been getting to grips with Guile’s spacing recently and as a result have been using all of his normals a lot more (they are AWESOME!) including st and cr lks. Those two have been particularly useful in the Dhalsim and Rose match-ups, often scoring counter hits.
Speaking of Dhalsim:
At full screen (outside of limb range), just hold down-back and return fire with Sbs. When he starts throwing cr. limbs (at this range, his air limbs won’t reach unless he IATs - will come to this later), you should have charge so flash kick them (they usually have an attack pattern that you can download - just pay attention, it typically tends to be 3 cr.limb attacks in a row and they don’t do any chip so don’t worry, just block he can’t hurt you) and close distance whilst he’s getting up.
UDK on his wake-up is very useful (200 plus damage hurts him a lot). If he teleports close you know the answer (FIERCE PUNCH!). If he teleports full-screen away, you know what to do!
Ideal sweet spot (what I have found works for me anyway) is actually within his sweep range - this is where lk counter hit comes in. At this range, Sims are used to sliding under sb’s on reaction, so you bait out the slide (sometimes they slide in anticipation) by simply doing nothing other than down-back and see what he does —> then react; if he slides, you lk on reaction.
For his air limbs, the following aa’s I have found to be useful: st. lp, st. mp and st.mk. His others seem to get crushed or miss altogether, so I wouldn’t recommend them.
Tl;dr: The real problem vs sim is you can’t crouch block for too long 'cus he does air limbs; and you can’t stand block for too long because he does crouch limbs, so the key is to pay attention and be patient - you have to download him gradually (which you can’t do if you try to rush him down in 10 seconds flat) but don’t be afraid to teach him to respect your spacing.
another character i think could end up being high tier is juri. she’s definitely very good in this game.
EDIT: i’ve just been watching min v dieminion at big two 9 and it’s kinda confirmed something to me. i’ve lost to a couple of t.hawks recently. at the time, i was down on myself as i put these defeats solely down to me playing badly (still assuming this match was ridiculously in guile’s favour). then i saw dieminion having problems with the exact same things that i was. empty jump ultra blowing up crouching fierce anti air. getting knocked down and having to guess on wakeup. t hawk just being gimmicky/random can be a real pain in the ass too. min really had kevin up against the ropes to the point where the random flash kicks were coming out lol. die held on and beat him in the end though
guile still wins, but i don’t think it’s 7-3 anymore…or anything near that. i don’t know what’s changed this match. maybe it’s the meter build, maybe it’s hawks ex condor dive…but the one thing i do know is that i’d definitely prefer to play against gief.
hey guys happy new to you all. first post in almost a year.
I been playing around with the upside down kick and i address the following points but feel free to point out anything that i missed etc:
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i found that against characters like Cody chun li, guy, ibuki and sakara, the upside down kick will whiff when they throw out a C LK at the same time. This is odd and it throws out the idea of using this in conjunction with a tick throw game.
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it works wonders against medium sized to large characters.
i had mixed success with it but still find that those C LP mashers will still interupt the UDK everytime.
any help with the Guy matchup is appreciated. he appears to be much harder now in 2012. hellGuys C LK is got so much priority that once it hit confirms he can then chain a target combo or a fat combo and you lose a big chunk of your life. timing an air grab against him is hard due to that elbow drop.
T hawk (aka free-hawk):
Depending on his jump arc, St. mk, back fist, GHK and air throw are your best anti-airs if he starts doing empty jumps (they also work well on zangief). You have to read it and judge accordingly though.
You don’t really want to be within a range where cr. fierce hits him anyway because of his high damage output off his command throws/super/ultra (it’s not worth the risk imo because he can score a knock-down so easily from that range and then something bad happens to you on wake-up), so you just have to get your AA’s down and keep him out with well-spaced normals.
In terms of spacing, moving in to range for a back fist (i.e the range he would condor dive you, you block it and punish with a back fist) and then quickly outside of his mule kick range/tomohawk buster shenanigans (I think st. lp hits him clean out of that if not, you’re holding block anyway) really pisses T hawks off. Chances are he’ll start jumping -> AA time!
I’m still working on the Guy and Ibuki match-up; can’t seem to reliably anti-air either of them…sad face.
Nj.hp works even better on T Hawk than on Gief cos of his jump arc and he doesn’t have Gief’s shortjump. It also avoids/trades with his headdive move more often than get beat out by it. And if his headdive misses, he lands into a combo and Guile can sweep him if he lands behind. Of course at some ranges, it’s better to jb if he dives. I think it’s a lot safer than Guile’s grounded AAs if you master it against T Hawk cos he can dive at last minute to catch grounded AAs.
It is possible to s.hp T Hawk’s headdive if you can hit his head clean with the tip of the fist. His sweep is also punishable in between just like Guile. Whiff punish his s.hk and condor spire with s.hp. Dash U1 can punish some versions of headdive on block for max dmg. Guile can also dash in and c.lk punish depending on distance.
It’s a pain when they abandon the proper way of playing and just play randomly. This is when Guile loses the matchup.
What the fuck do you do against Fuerte? I’m a retard and have no clue how to block his wake-up splashes. I tried focus dashing but nothing was coming out!!! What a fucking stupid character along with Viper, those two don’t belong in SF.
I try to air throw him a lot, you have to make at least a few good reads.
Dont be afraid to toss out an lk FK or 2 to try and keep him honest.
Sweep his whiffed splashes.
Back dash and try to remain a moving target.
Boom mostly at max distance.
Getting knocked down sucks in this match, prob one of Guiles worst - IMO it is the worst.
I try my best to mix up backdash/counter/aa game with anticipatory reads after he is then expecting you to sit and counter. Mind games are your best chance.
About all the DeeJay talk, here’s my two cents. I’ve started using him way more than Guile because his upkicks autocorrect way better than FK, that actually doesn’ autocorrect at all unless you do it at the very possible last moment. DJ is way less free on crossups than Guile, and the matchups against Viper and Akuma (well Akuma not that much) are much easier in my experience.
His slide is situational, but once you get your timing right, it can grant you easy knockdowns against shotos that like to poke with fireballs at mid range. He can also set up some nice ambiguous crossups if you know the distances and matchups, and has good safe jump ability with his knee shot.
Low attacks on knockdown are a problem, it’s true, but his AA game is in my opinion at par with Guile’s, once you know what to do, and I get KDd a lot less with DJ than with Guile.
Mid screen slashes are ok, but you should never ever slash an opponent up close unless it’s a part of your combo. EX slashes are good though, since they cover a lot of ground and usually people can’t jump above both and get caought in the second one.
He’s very different from Guile in the sense that his normals suck, and his footsies are sub par, but the character has a lot of potential. Never going to make top tier though.