Anybody heard from an other notable Guile players about the new changes. It’s weird that the obvious tournament regulars with this character have been all but mute with someone even like Dieminion pretty much retracting his complaints.
Here’s the thing with some of those buffs…
UDK hitbox buff
There’s like what? 7-8 characters it wiffs on when using it the way you’re supposed to? The thing is, no one has caught on to Guile’s UDK yet. Everyone is crouch teching with c.lp+c.lk. UDK is going to blow up people who crouch tech this way, but they don’t know that all you have to do to beat UDK is to crouch tech with c.lp+c.lk+c.mp. UDK has all that startup and is going to get beat by the c.mp crouch techs. I use it all the time on other guiles.
U2 full juggle buff
This buff adds 1 hit to FK > FADC > U2 which will do 30 more damage maximum. Less damage if you added more hits before FADC or are at lvl1 ultra. Sonic refreshing breeze.
airthrow range buff
When I tested the game, his airthrow had very minor range added to it. From what I’ve heard recently they might have given it more range. I doubt they’re going to give it as much range as it had in SF4/SSF4 but who knows. The thing is with airthrows, the reason why they are so good isn’t because of their range, it’s because of the speed they startup. Most jump attacks have about 6f startup. Airthrows have 3f startup so they’re going to win always. This is why the 4f startup nerf to guile’s airthrow didn’t do anything to him in AE because it was still faster than the startup of any jump attack.
c.mk hitbox/hurtbox increase
This buff is actually pretty good for guile. I think it’s going to be getting wiff punished more than it used to. Hurtbox increase is also a nerf to it don’t forget. This move really needs a startup or blockstun buff. -4 on block is retarded for a 7f startup attack. You can’t use this move on Zangief, even if he blocks from max range you get kara SPD’d. I love FK’ing other guiles who use this move on me.
+1 hitstun on c.lp
I hit c.lp > c.mp everytime anyways, so this buff doesn’t do anything different for guile. It just makes things easier for novice players. The new combos he gets from it… I’ve already shown that it actually scales his damage back on these combos.
+1 invicibility to FK’s
This will probably help out lk FK. I was using it against chunli’s at super arcade to go through s.mp > kikkoken. Guile get’s hit by the kikkoken currently if he tries to FK there since kikkoken is so slow. I still think it’s not going to do anything to mk/hk FK. 4f invincibility is going to make it trade still like the old FK’s.
Delayed Wakeup
I think that once people learn the game, DWU effectiveness is going to be reduced. We’ve already seen that Ibuki doesn’t care about DWU. She can react to DWU adjust her air trajectory with kunai’s to maintain her vortex. I think anyone who can adjust their air trajectory will eventually be able to do similar things. From what I’ve heard, the other problem with DWU is that you can react to the DWU message that pops up on screen and adjust your frame kill accordingly. When I played at super arcade there was no “technical” message that popped up. If you have an 11f normal, I’m sure you can adjust your frame kill when they DWU. I already have an idea to test one of guile’s safejumps to see if I can adjust my frame kill on the fly. His close s.lp is 11f.
Guile’s nerfs…
950 health
I really don’t like giving characters buffs only to nerf them.
CH on SB’s
SB is Guile’s game, he doesn’t have much else. The only SB that should receive this nerf is lp SB. That’s the SB that has the short recovery. It’s laughable that EX SB has received the same nerf. EX SB has the same amount of frames as many QCF motion projectiles. It also requires 50f of charge and a meter to use. This is really lazy on Capcom’s part.
U1
In AE2012 it had 7f startup, 10f invincibility, 510 damage and no one used it cause it was one of the worst ultras in the game and limited guile’s overall gameplay.
Supposedly in USF4 it has 6f startup, 6f invincibility, 450 damage. No one’s going to use it or Wultra. Capcom has failed if they leave it this way. If the autocorrect is removed from U1 they need to give people a reason to use it. IMHO, since autocorrect was removed it needs, 5-6f startup, 15f invincibility, 510 damage and then I might consider using it. I’ve already shown that being able to combo into U1 from c.lp doesn’t mean much since the damage gets scaled back.
Delayed Wakeup
Yeah, DWU affects Guile too. Not as much as the vortex characters but in some ways it does. Do you like putting a SB on top of your opponent when they wakeup? Now they’ve just DWU and you have to wait for the SB to leave the screen before you can throw another. It will affect his zoning with SB’s some.
Do you like doing safejumps so that you can get a free jump in and pressure string to build precious meter? Not only that, but you get to push your opponent to the corner for free, giving you precious screen space behind you. Your opponent can now DWU to make your safejump wiff. I know most guile players don’t use safejumps at all but I do.
Wultra
Now you can pick your anti-projectile ultra and your damage ultra against guile. Some characters that might benefit from this against guile is Chunli, Dudley, Sagat, Adon, Makoto. I’m sure there’s more I’m leaving out.
I just think that compared to some of the buffs other characters got, guile’s are kind of “meh”, especially when you consider the nerfs he got. He’s a midtier character right now. The other midtier characters didn’t receive these kinds of nerfs.
This is what I’m talking about though, DWU also nerfs guile. He could have easily done the same thing with any other character to mess with your safejump. Guile is going to have to change up his game too.
Gilley, can you share more about which unblockables have been fixed for Guile?
I’m thinking we’ll still get unblockabled by E.Ryu’s j.hk in the corner? I’m really hoping Gen’s unblockables on Guile are fixed, as that match will become a lot more better if those were removed.
For me to get Upside Down Kick to work on my opponents, I condition them to stop using the cr.lp+cr.lk+cr.mp by using cr.lp > St.hp.
EDIT: @gilley When I mention Justin using flashkick, I’m referring to Decapre’s flashkick (or whatever that down/up + punch move is called). Not Guile’s.
I tested about 80% of the unblockables in my video. None of them worked. I remember testing Gen’s unblockable Oga and it no longer worked. I was able to sit down for at least 8 hours and test things by myself in training mode when it was at super arcade.
The unblockables wont work, but I think we’re going to have a new problem. Evil Ryu is a perfect example. His unblockable is now a fake crossup. You will see e.ryu all the way on the other side of you during his jump attack and you naturally will try to block the other way, but you’ll get hit, you have to remember to block the same direction he came from. It’s kind of stupid. Now, if e.ryu decides to press jump mk, it will be a normal crossup and you’ll get hit if you tried to block the jump hk. So he’s still going to have a way to make you guess which way to block by using either mk or hk.
EDIT: I sort of brought this up to combofiend at the test saying “so, some of these unblockables are now fake crossups” his reply was “yeah?..” as if to say “so what”
One of the things I’m going to do when I first get USF4, is to figure out a e.ryu “unblockable” setup like he currently has, then see if you can adjust your setup on the fly if your opponent DWU. E.ryu has an 11f c.lp so he should be able to do this pretty easy. Then he’s going to be able to make you guess which way to block even if you DWU. It will be AE2012 all over again for Guile.
wtf? so he wasn’t even using Guile. Why would you argue how good DWU is going to be for Guile by using another character. I was wondering how he was using Guile’s FK so good on wakeup. In case you didn’t know, FK sucks on wakeup when someone is doing an ambiguous crossup cause he can’t autocorrect. All Guile is going to be able to do in those situations is DWU and hopefully block. Other characters will be able to do other things after DWU which you explained. I’m not going to be using normal stand > FK in a crossup situation, which will work for other characters. This is why I don’t understand how everyone is saying how good DWU is going to be with Guile compared to everyone else.
No, he despises Guile with the utmost hatred.
My apologies as I probably should’ve looked up what Decapre’s move is actually called. Just that most people at the venue (myself included) kept referring to it as a flashkick because honestly noone knew what it was really called. lol.
That explains why he cried like a bitch at Guiles auto U1
On a related note, given U1 is now 5 frame activation, how has this helped him in real terms. What can he punish now that he couldn’t before be it on whiff/block? Can he viably use this in an actual match other than when an opponent dp fadc (which is situational in and of itself)?
I was going to ask about the dwu effects but it sounds like it’s not really changed that much, which is what I was afraid of.
On top of this, he still can’t turn around properly which is literally the dumbest thing in the entire game. It’s like they’ve taken Guile being a thinking mans character to the extreme:
“Not only do you have to think when to attack, you also have to think when and which way to block! Isn’t this fun?!?”
I think I speak for everyone when I say, “No Capcom, no it fucking isn’t”
Off the topic of ultra changes - Is it possible to anti air divekicks? Or do I have to just block? The twins, E Ryu, Rufus, Cammy. FK seems to get stuffed all the time.
Hearing him cry “It’s so cheap!” every time he was airthrown which happened really frequently as he refused to stop jumping put a smile on my face.
Yes it is.
Twins/Rufus - GHK, st mk/mp, standing fierce. Reverse sobat all depending on the height/angle.
Jumping round house kick is also very effective. I learnt this by watching Nuckldus guile. Really useful tool.
Cammy - Hers are a little tricky. GHK and st mk are most reliable but sometimes they just aren’t fast enough to catch her and you tend to eat a CH dive kick. In those cases, Lv 3 FA does the job. I pick u1 in this MU for this reason.
FK does work but your timing and spacing have to be perfect - your boot has to hit hers before hers hit your legs.
Evil ryu has the most annoying one as it stuffs a lot of Guiles AAs because of its timing/angle. GHK, st. Mk/mp and crouch fierce all work but there’s a very specific timing and angle where these will whiff or get beaten
What makes it harder is from the same angle he dive kicks, he can anticipate your anti air and press round house kick which will beat your AA 
so even if you line it up and judge correctly he can always switch and pow foot in your mouth.
sometimes though, it’s better/safer to just block the dive kick or move out the way and deal with them when they land
Thank you very much, Pakman! I have been needing to step up my normals AA game, anyhow.
I believe I experimented with neutral st.hk (the close up one that destroys Honda’s butt splash) against Evil Ryu’s divekick and it worked pretty well also, provided you’re in the right spot where the kick executes properly and you can train yourself to let go of the stick on reaction (which for me is counter-intuitive as a Guile player… lol).
Also, lolz at pro players declaring their hate for characters, especially since they’re probably who Capcom is listening to when making changes to the game. So far, every change to him reeks of someone’s bias.
I’ll have to practice that st hk AA then!
Edit: tried it but it’s too specific timing, if you mess it up you get step forward and eat the dive kick . I’ll just stick with st mp/mk.
Thx a lot Gilley for explaining. I’m not a very technical player but I think I understand what you mean.
I think E.ryu can just hk axekick, whiff sweep and during the startup and recovery of the sweep, he’s able to react to the DWU notification. And if there is he just does a c.lp after sweep and jump again. If that’s the case, then the key to making DWU useful would be to adjust the timing of the message I guess.
This x 1000… I am trying my hardest to incorporate st.mk as an AA, but it’s so hard to let go of the stick! It ends up as a backwards medium sobat most of the time. But I’ll get it down eventually 
I probably use st.mk as my main anti air, cr.hp gets stuffed so much that it’s almost baitable. That louffy set with dieminion waqs lost on bad cr.hp alone.
@Pakman, you are crazy if you are trying to tag divekicks with GHK. I have never been able to use Guile’s most effective AA’s against divekicks, much less the precise GHK. In general I think the best options to beat divekicks are either j.hk, airthrow, or flashkick. In general, j.hk is the star child of this group of attacks. IMO, it’s the only one that can really consistently BEAT divekicks, along with whatever other jumping options your opponent may have. Obviously, the trick is having the reactions to actually jump and meet them air to air, instead of twitching and just jumping into an AA. Maybe air throw will be a better option once it gets buffed, but right now I don’t think it is too consistent.
Also keep in mind divekick ranges. The obvious big thing is if, say, you throw a boom at 3/4 screen against Yun and he neutral jumps, have that backfist on the ready to catch him on the way down. Speaking of Yun, if he’s close in the same situation, sometimes s.lp is literally the only option you have outside of just blocking (the safe option.) And, of course, don’t forget the occasional crouch tech with c.hp, (even though it is unsafe on hit/block) when the opponent is in your face and divekick is a threat.
@Gilley, Yah, the UDK stuff isn’t SO useful. I used to think that for people who knew about teching with c.mp it was at least a little better for then frame trapping with s.hp, since it would be easier to catch their slower tech… but do you know about c.lp plink tech? Apparently, you can tech by doing a slightly slower plink with c.lp ~ c.lk. It will tech with a c.lp… it’s pretty nuts. 801 Strider showed me… apparently its the only way to tech with Abel at a high level.
However, I do think that UDK is still good for frame traps where you are more used to forcing a stand tech from your opponent. For example, doing a jump with j.lp and going straight into UDK catches a lot of stand techs strangely. Plus, it should make it so it always hits chun out of hazanshu instead of whiffing.
I do think a lot of these nerfs feel hurried and poorly planned out for sure. I’m not torn up over U1 stuff because I never used it anyways, but it is a shame that it will still be useless. I feel like maybe 5f with autocorrect may have been a bit strong, but to make it 6f, not auto-correct, with less damage makes it even worse. If they insist on having no autocorrect, that thing needs to be 5f startup… or even 4f startup. I personally think auto-correct with 7f startup would be a nice middle ground. Still easy to safejump, but maybe it would stop, say, viper from burnkicking all willy-nilly on your wakeup.
@Slinkun
You haven’t lived until you’ve GHK’d a cammy dive kick.
Best feeling in the world my friend, best feeling in the world 
I have heard of this c.lp~c.lk crouch tech before. I haven’t tried to use it yet for Guile.
I also tested the new UDK against Hazanshu. UDK will still wiff if you do it too early. You need to slow down your reactions and do it late as possible to make it work.
Just saw some more Poison videos. Why the fuck does she have a better SB than Guile? It recovers so fast.