Did you see Dudley’s near full screen u1 punish? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaoEmBUIE5Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Go to 30 seconds
I was reading through this EH article and Wao mentioned that guile is overestimated in USF4. I was running some numbers the other day to see what +1 c.lp would do to guile’s damage, and how much damage he would do if he could combo into U1. It’s pretty funny after looking at the numbers. I agree with Wao, I think people are way over-reacting to guile’s changes. I’ve done some comparisons with some of his current combos that he has. Here’s some numbers…
260 close s.hp > hk FK
262 c.lp > close s.hp > hk FK
300 close s.hp > EX FK
294 c.lp > close s.hp > EX FK
332 j.hk > close s.hp > hk FK
324 j.hk > c.lp > close s.hp > hk FK
364 j.hk > close s.hp > EX FK
352 j.hk > c.lp > close s.hp > EX FK
203 c.lp > c.lp > close s.mp > SB > f+hp
219 c.lp > c.lp > far s.mp > SB > f+hp
450 raw U1
354 c.lp > c.lp > c.lp > U1
400 j.hk > c.lp > c.lp > c.lp > U1
379 c.lp > c.lp > c.mp > hk FK fadc > U2
419 j.hk > c.lp > c.lp > c.mp >hk FK fadc > U2
That being said, we do get to squeeze more damage out of various chargeless situations since we get to land 5hp on crouchers from a hit confirm. I guess this can help with landing close 5hp which can lead to EX RFA Ultra. Woopee. At the end of the day, Guile is getting shafted with character nerfs to balance out his system change indirect buffs and I think when you’re trying to balance direct/indirect it becomes even harder to predict the outcome.
Its kind of funny, I go to play last tuesday at a local session. One of our players is under the impression that you have to respect Guile. I tried to explain to him that you actually don’t have to; I didn’t respect Guile when I played Dudley back in Super (hell, I don’t respect Guile in Guile mirrors). That’s why I’ve said, and still say, that people have overblown Guile’s buff by a lot. So many characters have such an dishonest offense that trying to keep people out like its ST is just a losing proposition.
I don’t know why but some people still think that SF4 is stuck in vanilla. You can have some great Guiles but great Guile gameplay can only do so much against a lot of crazy nonsense. Sure, buff that cr.mk. What do we get out of it anyways? Oh yeah, a whole lot of nothing.
You want to give it a real buff, make that thing special cancelable. Guile’s been winning the same way since Super. All the current buffs do is make sure he keeps winning the same way. If you didn’t beat Guile in Super, the problem is all on the player at this point.
So, Decapre or Juri bandwagon, right?
Decapre Vs Guile USF4.
140 c.lp > close s.lp > far s.hp
150 c.lp > close s.hp
Yay, 10 more damage! 
This pretty much sums up my thoughts about Guile’s “buffs” in USF4. Other characters got buffs to fix their problems. Guile almost got something to fix one of his problems, but then it was reverted.
That decapre ultra punish on guile EX SB was pretty retarded. Looks like it wouldn’t have mattered if it was lp SB, still would have gotten hit. Yet another character that guile will have to stop playing his game once they get ultra. Too bad guile never got something like that. Many people don’t realize that Wultra is a pretty big nerf to guile, since now you will be able to pick your anti-projectile ultra more often against guile(chunli/dudley/etc)
@gilley Decapre’s U2 does punish lp booms from full screen. I got caught by it about 4~5 times to make sure that it wasn’t just me.
EDIT: Decapre’s U2 catches Gouken from full screen. LOL. I’m done.
Maybe the buffs we asked for were the wrong ones. I wanted the additional plus to cr.lp, but I should’ve also suggested damage increase to cr.mp, cr.mk, added damage damage/stun to his forward mp overhead and some other things. At least the damage buffs in various areas will make an offensive Guile much more viable.
I mean, having the entire gameplay of a character decided on whether or not they’ll fuck up an anti-air with a normal seems like a bad idea, right?
Of all the matches Arturo decides to get, it has to be the one where I’m getting clean bodied. He doesn’t get where I was actually taking rounds from Justin and bringing the matches close.
From what I’ve seen and read so far, all USF4 is going to be buffing is my frustration level. That Decapre match is just more of the “same sh*t, different version” stuff that I’ve grown accustomed to every update since vanilla. Dive kick cross ups and sonic boom shutdown all day long from yet another character… lovely.
Some aggressive CH setups that I was using at ECT that was making some folks very cautious of letting me get too close.
(Bolded is for on block)
Cr.lp > CH Close/Far St.Hp > Far St.Hp
Cr.lp > Cl.St.Hp > CH cr.mp xx Hp Sonic boom.
Cr.lp > CH. Close/Far St.hp > Cr.mp xx EX Boom.
Cr.lp > CH cr.mp > Far St.Hp
Cr.lp > Pause > CH cr.mp xx Ultra 1
Cr.lp > Pause > CH cr.mp > cr.mp xx sonic boom > sweep.
This pretty much sums up Guile in all versions of SF4, even super Guile. It’s so easy to jump a boom and make Guile have to block and you’re in his face. And not to mention his perfect hurtbox for combos and unblockables so much I wonder why is Dan the punching bag in challenge mode instead of Guile. C.mk needed a speed buff instead of a range buff.
Also, I think characters with fast startup ultras that travel at least half screen e.g Chun U1 and Adon U1, will definitely be very strong. Since it’s -5 on a front dash now, a non-EX reversal fadc will get hit by these ultras whether you choose to dash forward or backwards. I know a Chun who can punish dp fadc backdashes with U1 perfectly well when he sees one on reaction. You can use red FA to counter this but it requires more meter and hp at the same time, and you’ll still have a lot of grey hp when the opponent stands back up again if you’re using an ultra like Guile’s U2 or Rose’s U2.
Combofiend is really dumb, or he just doesn’t understand how to fight Guile in SF4. How much more can a character benefit than others from DWU if he can’t autocorrect, compared to a character who can autocorrect without charge?
I think you guys are really blowing this out of proportion and ignoring just how big of a deal delayed wakeup and a fixed wakeup hurtbox is going to be for Guile. The 50 health nerf and the fact that U1 will still be worthless is kind of whatever to me.
Only nerf that has me awkward in my seat is the CH recovery nerf to sonic boom… and even that will only really be a factor in matches where the opponent can react with a move to go through boom, and that move has better properties or comboable properties. I can only think of Zangief EX greenhand for example… and what… Dee Jay knee? Whatever.
Slinkun has a point. I noticed some things that Wong was doing on his wake up in the later matches with my Guile. He was mixing up his wake up in different ways. And I’m not referring to just waking up or simply delaying his wake up.
This keeps being brought up, but no one has ever explained why having a smaller hurtbox on his wakeup warrants all the nerfs he got. Care to explain? (yes my question is rhetorical cause I know precisely what this change is going to do)
What was Wong doing with Guile? This is kind of vague, you just say he was doing things, were those things working?
I thought that was a listed buff for Guile? So he would not get hit so easy by unblockables. They didn’t reverse that too, did they?
It is listed as a buff. The thing is, it only fixes like 3 unblockables on him. They now wiff completely(dudley). It was mainly the unblockbles that were like “jesus! that hits guile?!” Everyone’s getting unblockables removed from the game with the 1f hit detection. These few unblockables would have probably been fixed with the 1f hit detection. Capcom really doesn’t like them and is trying their best to make sure they aren’t a problem anymore.
The “buff” doesn’t warrant any nerfs he received.
EDIT: the other unblockables that were fixed are either fake crossups, or normal crossups. So get ready to continue getting hit by them!
Ahhh.
And I mean… don’t get me wrong. The stuff Capcom is pulling right now is worrisome. Feels very knee-jerk to a lot of stuff. It makes you wonder if loketests are even a good thing… no one has time to experiment… every japanese player has a different tier list…
I’m just sitting here and looking at the buff/nerf list and seeing an overall better character. I like the UDK buff. I like the U2 full damage off juggle buff. I like the air throw buff. c.mk? Sweet. The extra frame of hitstun on c.lp is not super necessary, but nice to have. I’ve already professed my love for the flashkick invincibility and DWU.
And the nerfs? 50 less health and CH on booms.
As far as I can tell, I am looking at a better character. Sure, the 950 health and CH thing sucks for sure, but I really do think that DWU will help kind of neutralize some of that stuff out.
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Regular Wake Up Flashkick Reversal
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Delayed Wake Up Flashkick Reversal
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Regular Wake Up > Pause > Flashkick
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Regular Wake Up > Backdash.
Maybe it was just me but it was kind of difficult to tell what he was going to do every time on his wake up. He kept changing the timing of his wake up so it was hard to plan anything on him at all.
At one point, I was landing airthrows on him (to which he started calling cheap) and began safejumping (Whiff cr.HP, forward jump HK) and he started forcing the jump hk to whiff . I switched up the safejump set up to where I didn’t use hk and executed empty jump to cr.lk > OS Sweep and he did a regular wake up flashkick to beat my cr.lk.
Bottom line, he kept switching up his wake up options.