SSF4 Gen Match-ups & Strategies (Old)

tha_messiah · June 19, 2010, 1:56am

I added the info. Needs to be cleaned and sorted, but I’ll do that later, gotta pick the GF up.

Warlike · June 19, 2010, 2:01am

vohnie:

Agreed. When I cross up, I usually try to mix in one of the options below:

1.) [C] j.MK > [M] c.lp/c.lk > throw
2.) [C] j.MK > [M] c.lk > c.lp > s.MP > [C] c.mp > lp roll
3.) [C] j.MK > s.lp >c.lp(if blocked) c.lk >[M] c.hk/Super/c.hp (if xup hits)
4.) [C] j.MK > [M] s.mp > 1.) s.hp >hands or 2.) s.mk > lk Gekiro or 3.) s.hp > lk Gekiro
5.) [C] j.MK > (big damage on xup hit) [M] Super -or- [M] s.hp > hk Gekiro
6.) [C] j.MK > neutral jump j.hk x2 > c.mp > hp roll
7.) [C] j.MK > neutral jump j.hk x2 > c.mp > Oga
8.) [C] j.MK > neutral jump j.hk x2 > grab
9.) [C] j.MK > neutral jump > Crane U2 (to punish whiffed grab, etc.)

edit: my all time favorite
10.) [C] j.MK > [M] c.lp > c.lp > hands cancel on 1st hit > Super.

It looks technical on screen, but it’s essentially a watered down version of Gen’s trial 24. It does less damage than [C] c.lk > [M] Super, BUT it’s much safer and you can use this after any c.lp. For example, if you’re in a footsie battle and your opponent whiffs, you can use [M] c.lp > c.lp > 1st hit hands > Super.

Sometimes I’ll pull a SF4 and xup with Crane j.MK then follow up with a neutral jump MK then cross up to the other side with Crane j.Mk. I usually grab at this point. Gen has a lot of nice mix up options, just getting consistent knockdowns is the problem.

Edit2: To clarify the Guile super setup I mentioned above, Guile needs to be mostly on the other side of the screen so that if you jump in with Crane, you’ll meet him in the middle for his anti air throw. A Mantis jump will land earlier and closer to where you were already standing, allowing you to punish with crane super if Guile whiffed his grab and is still in the air. Also, I like your idea of air to air lp with a cross under. I’ll remember that. I think Gen also combines a little bit of Sakura/Abel in that sense. So far I can see three characters that contribute to Gen’s “unorthodox” style: Chun-Li for spacing and patience, Sakura for mix-ups, and Fei Long for long range Focus attacks and footsies.

I was going to make a okizeme/wakeup thread, mind if I use this for it?

tha_messiah · June 19, 2010, 2:25am

Great Idea. I think some of them could even be added to the Combo thread too. But a wake-up thread is a good idea.

vohnie · June 19, 2010, 2:34am

I don’t mind at all, glad to help out.

street11 · June 19, 2010, 3:18am

I had a big problem with a random Akuma.

First he starts the match with either jump back air hadouken or s.HK, usually pressuring me with s.HK afterwards. Once he knocks me down, he either safe jumps me or uses demon flip palm to land at the other side, to either grab or jab spam or SRK FADC once he has two bars. He also zones me with hadouken on full screen and waits for my jump just so he can SRK me if I’m in range. He almost always teleports away to either side after knockdown or after blocking my jab (hence making jab grab useless), and it’s up to me to guess or react to which side he went.

I’ve never been beaten bad like this before, and I’d like some advice. Probably all damage I did was out of Ultra and teleport punish, since I got predictable after panicking so hard.

tha_messiah · June 19, 2010, 6:33am

I was an Akuma main in Vanilla. and have been playing him for years. I’ll give you some insight asap. Just with the GF.

Warlike · June 19, 2010, 5:41pm

street11:

I had a big problem with a random Akuma.

First he starts the match with either jump back air hadouken or s.HK, usually pressuring me with s.HK afterwards. Once he knocks me down, he either safe jumps me or uses demon flip palm to land at the other side, to either grab or jab spam or SRK FADC once he has two bars. He also zones me with hadouken on full screen and waits for my jump just so he can SRK me if I’m in range. He almost always teleports away to either side after knockdown or after blocking my jab (hence making jab grab useless), and it’s up to me to guess or react to which side he went.

I’ve never been beaten bad like this before, and I’d like some advice. Probably all damage I did was out of Ultra and teleport punish, since I got predictable after panicking so hard.

Demon flip can be beaten out be crane j.hp (or I believe it trades with his palm option). If he you notice he likes to teleport try ‘baiting’ it out by pushing him into the corner and making it seem as if you are going to advance on him, if he teleports punish him. His s.hk is great but of he whiffs the first hit (happens sometimes due to bad spacing) you can actually punish him with a throw or normal attack if you block the second one. If your footsies are on point and you know he is going to jump (for an air FB or something) try doing an Ceiling Oga :db or :df: to catch him. Once you have super or ultra he obviously cannot use air fireballs and a teleport can be punished aswell.

Yeah…I got nothing

street11 · June 19, 2010, 6:38pm

Ty for the insight Warlike. I’d like to point out that he only demon-flipped either when I was knocked down or when I blocked his s.HP.

I had realized that I was rly jumpy in the 2nd round of that match, and almost no zoning came into place. I hit the training, learned some MK spacing, finally am able to do mantis c.MP xx Hands constantly, and I wanna face him again. But I was drunk and I don’t remember his nickname lol.

Warlike · June 19, 2010, 9:21pm

Oh right.

Demon Flip on wakeup can pretty much only be beaten out by EX gekiro as far as I know, not sure on that though. Maybe dashing forward might actually work similarly to when you dash to avoid Bisons headstomp, again I’m not sure on that.

Bronzefist · June 19, 2010, 10:05pm

Also, don’t forget about EX Oga to avoid his jumping FB pressure on wakeup. It’s one of the few things EX Oga is used for anymore.

Neo0MJ · June 20, 2010, 12:04am

Hey, that’s right! An Akuma player once annoyed my by using a fireball cross-up, didn’t know what to do.

tha_messiah · June 20, 2010, 8:24pm

Akuma players use c.MP a lot more now. I believe it’s a lot faster, and has better range. Don’t quote me. But, it feels a hell of a lot better than in Vanilla.

Mnszyk · June 21, 2010, 1:32pm

What are people doing off an untechable knockdown?

zUkUu · June 21, 2010, 2:14pm

depends on the situation. back dash is a good option if they are grounded (tho, keep in mind they can bait it if u overdo it). vs jump in (ex-)gekiro is your friend. if they start late // safe jump in, backdash again or simply block.
vs crossups just block or backdash if u foresee it.

Loling-Octopus · June 22, 2010, 7:36pm

vs Ibuki you can punish on reaction and block her hien (not ex afaik) with mantis ultra 1

Warlike · June 22, 2010, 8:00pm

Then it should also work with mantis super.

Might even be able to punish all versions with crane super/ultra if you see it coming/are fast enough.

Zaruka · June 22, 2010, 10:59pm

just dont fuck up when you try to do crane if you do it before she hits you, i usually go for hien when i have a super ready with ibuki and that super hurts a lot.

tha_messiah · June 24, 2010, 11:51pm

I’m working on effective AA’s vs Guy’s Flying Elbow. His Crane s.HP works awesome vs it. I’ll put a list of great tools vs his special.

FYI he can throw you even when you are grounded. not sure many people knew that or not.

No_Limitz · June 28, 2010, 8:31am

s.MK xx MP Hands, s.MK xx whatever works on Deejay
[media=youtube]0uNq-yBfcl8&feature=sub[/media]

tha_messiah · June 28, 2010, 9:02am

Thanks will add that info. Gotta love Hoigek