As far as Jaguar Tooth goes: i always counter it with mantis s.MP, when he starts shouting “Ja-”. It beats both EX and regular Tooths.
Vertical jump his hk jaguar tooth and punish! The start up on it is pretty long, so just vertical jump mk, mp mk lk gekiro for the knockdown. (or whatever) It’s fun and makes HK jaguar tooth not worth using.
If he starts playing footsies and relying on standing HK a lot, then space yourself just out of range and sweep him to counter.
If he does a jaguar kick for block damage, or ex mid screen, buffer your super and punish. Another option is to keep down back charged and oga to the wall. You can always oga and then wall cancel, or do the oga kick if he goes ahead with jaguar kick. It has horrible recovery if it whiffs.
Just a tip for players that have a hard time with shotos. Here is a big tip. I’ve been trying to drive this into my instincts but I keep jumping away or oga feinting too much. Get in their face. Use a lot of crouch blocking and staying in crane can really help learn to jump between the two styles so you can poke or AA. Once you get a knock down get into sweep distance. Let him make a move, don’t try to hit him out of his wake up animation. You can do that with an overhead later in the round to throw them off but really get in their face. Basically you have to play like bison but have to play safer. Just keep pressuring him. Hope this helps anyone that has a hard time with shotos after they get inside.
You have no idea how much I love you 
This simple tip just made me realise many flaws in my gen, baiting shoryuken is really the best thing to do vs shotos
glad I could help. I’m going to go over some more videos and pick apart my game. I might even make a compilation video of what not to do and how to correct what you may be doing wrong. Don’t expect it tomorrow but stay tuned.
I’ve got some matches saved where I play some solid footsies vs shotos. They’re also an easy bunch (ryu and ken) to push into the corner and start applying corner footsies mind games.
The mindgames after a knockdown are quite solid with gen. Remember that part of footsies is making your opponent think that you WILL bait their dragon punch. So space yourself in that zone and wait. And when you train em with this knowledge, space yourself to kara throw, or mp into block string, or overhead, or even do a far mk crane cross up. This can be time so that it is VERY hard to be shoryukened…After they learn they have to block or wait then they will be all soft for the picking.
I wish I had a way of uploading some vids.
We could make a channel and you play the videos you want, and I’ll record.
What I do now is for the first 3 knockdown I just block low and wait until they wakeup, it’s risky but somewhat safer than jumping in shoryuken zone. After those 3 knockdown I play a lil bit more risky but yeah what messiah wrote really helped me see my flaws.
After a knock down vs Shotos Crane is your friend. You have c.HK for AA, poke roll to punish srks, Overhead, and potential cross up. These are the better tools IMO.
That is a brilliant idea Messiah. I’ll add you to my psn friend’s list and hopefully our paths will cross.
I’ll go home tonight and save some matches from last night vs a solid ryu.
One will show some kara throwing after a knockdown and some safish cross ups after a knockdown.
I’ll get some games vs a good honda, amazing cammy player and adon saved as well.
sounds good m8, feel free to save as many as possible. What ever helps. Gen vs solid Ryu videos are hard to come by.
While on the subject of Ryu. I’ve updated his Match-up and added some tips on getting in on him. Still going to work on it some more but just put some stuff for now.
Staying in crane vs shotos is definately good. Although baiting them every time on wakeup is not going to work every time and Gen’s overhead can still be reversal’d pretty easily be a competent Ryu. Staying within sweep distance is always good though so definately some good advice there.
I was thinking of making an Okizeme/wake-up list/guide on general wakeup options and mindgames/footsies for Gen. Maybe also include character specific stuff such as things recomended for shotos etc. Don’t know if that’ll be useful though?
every little bit of information can be used bud. gives us more options to be less predicable.
Quick Guile thing, new to me, might be worth trying. You are standing on the far edge of the screen. Guile lp booms and jumps expecting you to jump over. If you mantis jump over the lp boom, you’ll land in front of Guile with just enough time to use [C] Super. Another thing that seems to shut down the Guile psychic jump air throw is Mantis air MP/HK and Crane air MP. I find Crane HP and HK kinda tricky as Guile might throw you depending on the timing. Test these out for yourselves, I found the Mantis air MP to be pretty sure fire.
I’ve found the lights to work best vs jump over boom grab defense. I’ll try that. I like using the lights then cross under. I’ll let you know if I have more success with the MP. Thanks.
Another tip. I see a lot of Gen’s using Crane j.MK Cross up, c.LK. I’m known to use it too. But I have better success, especially on block with this. Crane j.MK, Mantis s.MP then go from there.
I feel like there are alot of situations where it is much safer to switch styles in a combo due to the safety of mantis s.mp> whatever.
Also something I don’t see used very much is using j.mk for a regular jump-in! Your opponent will always be expecting you to crossup and with some practice you can space it so it hits the front of your opponent too getting you a free combo atleast. I have to say I am really enjoying the depths this section is willing to go find new handy stuff. I guesxit helps that the community of Gens is pretty tight as it is.
Also, the matchup info is steadily increasing with writeups and guaranteed super/ultras, good stuff.
Agreed. When I cross up, I usually try to mix in one of the options below:
1.) [C] j.MK > [M] c.lp/c.lk > throw
2.) [C] j.MK > [M] c.lk > c.lp > s.MP > [C] c.mp > lp roll
3.) [C] j.MK > s.lp >c.lp(if blocked) c.lk >[M] c.hk/Super/c.hp (if xup hits)
4.) [C] j.MK > [M] s.mp > 1.) s.hp >hands or 2.) s.mk > lk Gekiro or 3.) s.hp > lk Gekiro
5.) [C] j.MK > (big damage on xup hit) [M] Super -or- [M] s.hp > hk Gekiro
6.) [C] j.MK > neutral jump j.hk x2 > c.mp > hp roll
7.) [C] j.MK > neutral jump j.hk x2 > c.mp > Oga
8.) [C] j.MK > neutral jump j.hk x2 > grab
9.) [C] j.MK > neutral jump > Crane U2 (to punish whiffed grab, etc.)
edit: my all time favorite
10.) [C] j.MK > [M] c.lp > c.lp > hands cancel on 1st hit > Super.
It looks technical on screen, but it’s essentially a watered down version of Gen’s trial 24. It does less damage than [C] c.lk > [M] Super, BUT it’s much safer and you can use this after any c.lp. For example, if you’re in a footsie battle and your opponent whiffs, you can use [M] c.lp > c.lp > 1st hit hands > Super.
Sometimes I’ll pull a SF4 and xup with Crane j.MK then follow up with a neutral jump MK then cross up to the other side with Crane j.Mk. I usually grab at this point. Gen has a lot of nice mix up options, just getting consistent knockdowns is the problem.
Edit2: To clarify the Guile super setup I mentioned above, Guile needs to be mostly on the other side of the screen so that if you jump in with Crane, you’ll meet him in the middle for his anti air throw. A Mantis jump will land earlier and closer to where you were already standing, allowing you to punish with crane super if Guile whiffed his grab and is still in the air. Also, I like your idea of air to air lp with a cross under. I’ll remember that. I think Gen also combines a little bit of Sakura/Abel in that sense. So far I can see three characters that contribute to Gen’s “unorthodox” style: Chun-Li for spacing and patience, Sakura for mix-ups, and Fei Long for long range Focus attacks and footsies.
Thanks to you.
^my honda info isnt put up yet =/ wrote a mail about a week ago ^^
btw, could it be that gen’s tick jab-throw isnt working well? dunno, when i do it with any shoto, cody or rog etc it at least tech or i grab them. with gen i eat just a jab > combo.
Sorry man I missed that one. I checked these a while back at my GFs and must’ve forgot this one. Putting up now.