Is there any thing someone could suggest vs vipers EX seismo fake? Wolfkrone uses it vs me all of the time against tick throws, fake normal then throw, on non-techable knock down. wtf can gen do vs that besides not even press a button and just tech or block. can he punish that without mashing gekiro?
what situation are you talking about? are you safe jumping?
safe jump OS giekro beats everything she has except backdash. also safe jump OS sweep will beat everything except EX BK.
i came to the conclussion that the only way to beat viper is to neutral jump constantly at max mp tk range, and to use OSes on her wake up
also are you able to take matches off him with any consistency? he smokes me pretty bad
I think I’m 7-15 vs his viper. I neutral jump a lot too. But if I do tick throws he will EX Seismo Fake and when I go to throw, this invinc frames will make me miss then he punishes. But he doesn’t do it all the time. So it throws me off. TBH I don’t use OS, because and time I try that shyte it never works. So I just stick to normal safe jumping etc. But when I do a safe jump attack he will seismo ex fake when I start to punish after his wake up. Or, if I don’t safe jump he will use is vs other things like c.mk hands to super stuff like that. My question is what safe vs that? I think I’m going to go in the lab to see if I can back off then punish with like s.MK or something like that. But I’m guessing that he will be able to DP me.
i think if he goes to throw you, you have to tech. i dont think you will be at any sort of frame advantage if he feints thru one of your attacks. EX feint recovery might be like 7-10 frames or something. at that point youre still coming out of your throw whiff recovery, and you guys end up being evenish. id have to lurk the viper forum to be more exact about it
your gen is doing better than mine does against him. i dont remember the score from the last time i played my gen vs him, but it was bad enough where i just pick fei if im playing him now.
im going all gen though in AE so we will see what happens
Well soon I’ll be playing Latif. He asked to be friends so this will be a fun rape. But I’d rather play pro players of each character so I can build up my match-up. What happens is I’ll play someone just for fun and get used to scrub tactics or people doing unsafe stuff that I can punish, then I’m stuck in that mode for a few matches. I’m no pro, and don’t claim to be the best gen, but I’d rather get beat by awesome players than win to scrubs. Playing wolfkrone def helps my blocking cross-up pressure.
well if you feel good enough about your matches, record some more of them. we could learn from watching a matchup that dosent get played too often
I’ve posted some bro. I didn’t get them all because by the time I went to save them I only had 4 of them left. So was stuck with the last ones I posted. 2-2.
ok thats cool. make sure you get some from if you play latif tho.
im going to start playing ranked again soon. i want to have some vids against good players to throw up too
Kinda thinking about not posting them 
I guess it would be a “this is how to get raped by viper” tutorial
I got destroyed by Hugo 101’s Bison. Couldn’t jump because of s.HK, his pokes and footsies are better and kept me from getting near Bison (his normals stuff s.mk->hands), better walk-speed and throw setups. Took only one round in two matches.
How do you deal with aggressive zoning Bisons? He just turtled and kept me out for free the entire time. He didn’t jump, didn’t devil’s reverse, he EX Psycho’d away from any time I pushed him back and wasn’t in a position to punish.
I’m almost considering using Crane U2 for his S.HK. Crane j.hp was losing to it… you’d think this was vanilla. His walk speed just allowed him to walk back and put me into its most ideal position to AA.
i dont jump in that match. i play him in his max lk scissors range. that also happens to be where st.rh is most effective as AA vs mantis jumps. if you do jump from there, use crane mp or fp.
you have to land a sweep somewhere to get going. either whiff punnish a st.rh, or hope he miss spaces a lk scissor and whiff punnish it.
also you have to accept the AA trades from mantis st.fp or st.mp. you wont really find much AA use for cr.fp because of the spacing you both will be using.
does reversal hp hands still work good in AE vs bison? i know he gets more pushback after scissors now.
I would suggest using crane to walk faster into him. But get ready to block. When I play against good bisons like that, who stay back and use their pokes a long with his scissor kicks when you start to walk forward. So just get ready to block fast. Maybe use dash in sweep?
I hate playing charge players that do that. I played against a rog that just moved back in forth, mainly back, then when I walked forward, he would rush punch, then jump back. it was fucking annoying. barely any offence at all.
Stuck the AE verion of this. Should this stay stuck or unsticky?
I will message you when this can be taken down. Thank you Mr. Flowers for pinning the AE version. I just wanted to get that thread started before someone else started one that might possibly just bail and never update it. I’m going to be here 100% to keep it up-to-date.
thanks again.
Should you really take down stuff on super? I mean… people are still going to play non-AE, so this stuff isn’t going to become irrelevant.
Or am I misunderstanding?
actually that is a good point since you can switch between both Super and AE. So maybe it should be left up. I won’t request it.
I very regularly play with one of the best Hakan players in Europe and have to say that much more needs to be added to this matchup info.
Firstly it is very much two matches in one.
Unoiled Hakan’s normals have tremendous priority, particularly the hugely damaging Hakan Spear (6HP) and whatever they call his 6MP (this one has active frames for weeks). Getting in on Hakan from mid-range can be very, very tricky because of this. However you NEED to play aggressively to preventing him from oiling up. Having a 3 frame jab is tremendously useful here as nothing Hakan has is anywhere near as quick or as good on frames.
When he gets oiled up you will NEED to keep him at around (m)5mk, (m)2mk, (m)2mp range to cancel into hands if they hit/block. Any other, non-cancellable, normal will see him focus and DNC you which will almost always lead to a knockdown and the Hakan vortex (he can safe jump you all day, has fuzzy setups with the kick SPD, and a lot more options). If you manage to knock him down and he is oiled then do NOT try to cross up as he can once again can DNC you, instead safe jump him. If you are trying to throw him he can put out throw invulnerable jabs when oiled. When Hakan has oil this is a VERY tough match.
I know it goes without saying here but I see it altogether too much: do not jump. Jump from far and you will eat The Chopper. Jump from close he can air grab you. The mention that his j.mp has absolutely amazing priority is spot on - it beats pretty much everything and will trade with shakudan, knocking you down and giving him the reset which allows time for oil. Hakan can grab you out of wall dives or hit you out of them. Staying grounded is imperative.
Also, do not bank on sitting waiting on the opposite side of the screen for him to oil up and come get you so you can reversal super or ultra him. Hakan can wait until he knocks you down to set up a safe oiling.
Basically, rush him down before he can get oil. If he does manage it then maintain aggression but do so only through normals that can be cancelled.
I can bet that not many people will have played against a Hakan that has a grip on DNC or the knowledge of Gen required but be aware that the next one you come up against might know a thing or two.
[EDIT] THIS WILL CHANGE VERY MUCH IN AE WHEN HAKAN HAS A 3 FRAME 6lk [/EDIT]
I faced a really good Hakan player and had similar difficulty. Your match-up knowledge will help greatly when I face him again. Thanks!
P.S. Any other info will be helpful.
Not much else I can add really. You should know that his SPDs outside EX have no invulnerability so meaty will always beat it if he doesn’t have bar. There are some videos of my playing against said Hakan on my youtube page.
Frame trap him and make sure you lead your close game with shorts and jabs (i.e. don’t do anything stupid). Most of all never jump at him if he has oil, dnc means he wins.
[EDIT] When oiled his high priority normals have the added bonus of moving him across the screen so can hit you from even further away [/EDIT]
Cool if you want something added to the match-up. Please PM it to me like I requested everyone to do so in my first post.