SSF4 Gen Match-ups & Strategies (Old)

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
361

Blanka’s slide on block (close): Ultra/Super/combo
Blanka’s slide on block (far): safe
horizontal roll (to trade or stuff him): KKK s.hk/PPP s.hp/PPP c.lp or s.lp
horizontal roll (blocked): Ultra/Super/dash forward mk xx hands
horizontal roll (hit): Super
horizontal roll (block or hit, blanka in corner): Ultra/Super/combo
vertical roll (block): Ultra/Super/walk forward mk xx hands
vertical roll (hit): Ultra/Super
vertical roll (block or hit, blanka in corner): Ultra/Super/combo
Electricity (blocked): safe
rainbow roll (blocked): Ultra/super/combo
rainbow roll (you focus it): dash cancel then punish him as he’s landing with anything you want/if he’s not landing on the other side of you, hold your focus to level 3 FA
c.hp (block): mk xx hands/Super (if close, otherwise you can’t super it)

These are from memory cuz I’m still in the office. Try these in training mode and I’ll go home later and confirm all these.

Other things to remember:
Always watch his meter. If you knock him down and he’s meterless, use a meaty move and he has to block it or backdash (a meaty crossup takes care of the latter). If he’s crouching and holding his charges for his rolls, learn the range at which KKK j.hp stuffs any roll he throws at you and you can get in on him for free unless he can get electricity out fast enough (don’t ever rely on jump attacks beating electricity)
Always watch his charge. If he just moved forward, he can’t use any roll.
Learn your safe-jump setups against him to keep pressure on him and bait out ex vertical roll
Put him in the corner. Not only can you use KKK c.lk -> PPP U1 in the corner, but both blanka’s horiz. and vert. rolls become unsafe on hit. If Blanka has U1 and starts jumping backwards into the corner, watch for his j.hk -> U1; it’s an easy combo for him to confirm with all the hit-stun from j.hk
Practice your punishes in training mode a lot (I do this for any character that gives me problems). Use your intuition to know what he wants to do, and if he actually does it, your training and muscle memory will take over.

362

Loooooool i came on here to rant about honda n found out u guys already started without me :frowning:

how i handle his NJ HP…i always try to land my crane super as soon as i have it…that makes em think twice about jumping so much.

also the mantis super works as a juicy AA…i usually use the Mp version…depending on how far they are from the ground.

i tend to do a lot more Oga’s vs honda…fake a few oga’s to make em look stupid trying to counter u with the usual nj fierce…then do the one that comes straight down on em…or at a slight angle…if u conditioned em properly it should hit (not guaranteed of course but it works for me)…get a knock down…then try some unorthodox mix ups.

i sometimes intentionally do an oga too early so i land just as they wake up…then throw out a HK or Ex gekiro to beat their sumo splash.

honda n bison are def my worst match ups in this game…what are urs?

363

That is actually why I despise the blanka matchup so much, you can only really punish easily if you have super/ultra, because the timing for dash mk hands to punish balls is really strict and afaik dependent on which verison Blanka used. In AE version his ball recovery is even worse, so maybe it’ll become easier to punish…

I’d rather do crane s.hk or if I can seal the match I’ll do ex Gekiro.

364

IIRC you should be able to punish each blanka ball if you stand block then dash into mk xx hands its harder now though since the mk has a shorter hit box though it will be a non issue in AE anyway. This is just like the Abel match where you have to stand block dash in then step kick into whatever and its very very tight timing wise. Really though Blanka should not be winning on horizontal ball alone. You can counter it with pokes and when you do get ultra you dont have to worry about it much anyway. Mid range you should be out poking him sMK and cMP being the go to pokes here. If he is at max slide range and not charging then just focus, he has no poke or armor break in that situation. Really Blanka is mostly tricks and shenanigans. Rarely do I see ones good enough to jab xx elec into hops or what have you and if you knock him down you cn safe jump all his tricks meaning you should be able to apply similar OSes to him that you would Honda. I haven’t tested yet but I bet jump in OS ex Gekiro is pretty good here as far as options go.

365

I don’t really play against online scrubs anyway, so the ones I do play actually hop around all day long and use every shenanigan you can think of. They just piss me off. Especially hop into jab> electricity/throw :expressionless:

But then again, I usually play Seth if I’m serious so it’s a non issue for me.

366

i think we should rework the matchup thread in a way that lists all the character specifics. like max dmg hit confirm bnb, max dmg from crossup, max meterless punish. oga crossup setups. prefered AA, and choice of ultra, etc. these things all change from character to character, and is a lot to remember

i lost to a viper player at a recent tourney in the last set because i landed a lvl 2, and proceeded to do s.mp, s.fpxxxlk giekro. the giekro whiffed, and i ate a FFF combo for the loss

the current way does a lot of this stuff now, but we should be able to ge the info without having to fully read a write up. maybe a possible cliff notes section?

367

hey gen players! i was wondering if someone can help me with my seth vs gen matchup… if you have xbox live and are willing to do some endless let me know please since i have no idea on recovery etc for gen. much appreciated. :smiley:

368

I don’t mean to be a jerk or anything, but Warlike shouldn’t have posted the same thing I did about beating Blanka Balls with Crane st.hk.

Warlike, give credit where credit needs to be given. Jerk.

369

That was some good shit on the honda write-up, Zero. I’ll have to go test it myself next time I find a good Honda specialist. I’m skeptical, looking at hitboxes, but we’ll see if I can learn the timing on the crane HK. I’m not so concerned about blanka. There’s still no (non ultra/super) answer for a jumping honda other than to just outplay his defense.

370

You think I read everything? Sometimes things get lost in discussion and such. I was going to apologize, but then I remembered your sheer arrogance, jerk.

371

lol, thanks for apologizing, jerk.
Anyways, I kinda figured you didn’t read everything.
I sorta had that info deep in the paragraph lol

372

Hey zero, its also my fault for not reading everything either isnt that right?
Dont worry about it.

My real problem is I only use fundamentals and good reads. I outplay my opponents alot but I hardly punish with combo’s at all. Mk Hands is still out of my reach training wise, eventually I’ll gather the patience enough to commit to it. On that note, regardless of what I think of my fundamentals, Im glad to have found KKK st.hk for Blanka, regardless of who told me. Thanks to both of you <3

373

zero and kahmos can i add you for some gen practice???

374

It’s time I start spilling all my secrets on Gen.
So yes, you can add me for some practice. I hope you have a Godlike 1-bar connection. lol

@everyone: Check it out, I don’t believe Gen’s damage output is all that low as people claim to be. For instance this combo:
– (Mantis) st.mp, st.mp xx hands (3-hits) FADC st.mp, st.hp xx lk-geriko = 320dmg. That’s pretty darn good for a non-jump-in combo, imho… and I do believe that his damage can be increased by a little bit if you add this in instead of the last part of the combo: (Mantis) st.mp, (Crane) cr.mp xx lp-roll.

NOTE: this combo takes PRACTICE! And it’s not all that hard to land in real matches because all you have to do is catch your opponent in a counterhit-st.mp, and then follow-up with the combo above. AND, if you DO catch your opponent in a counterhit-st.mp, then you might even be able to add even more damage by subtituting the (Mantis) st.mk with (Mantis) cr.mp xx hands (3-hits) and follow up with FADC.

And here’s the thing, it’s not really worth it because 2 meter bars are hard to accumulate. So, this is the reason why I AM in favor of having Gen’s meter buffed. If only by just a little bit. I’d even be happy if they buffed it by 5%. But if you’re like me, you probably like to poke around a lot, and take some damage to get the first super in the first round. It IS possible! I believe that’s what Capcom was aiming for… I was testing out just how effective I have to make my combos, and it’s CRUCIAL that we FADC on the 3rd hit of his handslap!
But again, this is tough execution. And it takes patience, and FOCUS in order to able to get used to FADC-ing on the 3rd hit.
It took me few grunts, and “damn-its” to have me get used to solidly getting this habit down.

But yeah, if anyone has any questions regarding match-up knowledge, i’ll tell you this straight out.
Cammy is by far Gen’s worst match-up, imo. Anyone else, you kinda just have to avoid having them jump on you.
I’ve noticed a lot of players like to just jump in on you because, well, you’re mothafuckn’ GEN! lol
I can try my best to help you guys out with any questions, so feel free to ask.

Oh, and check this out, Gen has the 2nd best Kara-throw.
But it takes practice. You do this: You start of in Mantis, and you use his st.hk to kara into his Crane-stance, and IMMEDIATELY do a kara-backthrow in his Crane stance. I’ve tested it out, this technique is actually better than his Mantis kara-st.mk-backthrow. So, if you guys wanna test this out for yourself (I don’t have the capability to post videos, sorry), all you gotta do is go to training mode, and pick ANY dummy. You start off by backthrowing your opponent, and this will leave you at the perfect distance to test this out. You can try kara-backthrowing his (mantis) st.mk, and you will notice that you won’t be able to reach your opponent, but if you kara his Crane stance (which by the way, has anyone else discovered this??? if so, credit to whoever discovered it) and then immediately kara-backthrow in Crane, you WILL be able to reach your opponent. Pretty neat, you can fool your opponent into thinking that you’re too far away, but then teleport all the way to him and grab lol… and since it’s a back-throw, there’s that added mind-game that you might possibly do it again, so abuse this knowledge!!

Any more questions??

375

I have a question, and if its somewhere else my bad for missing it but is there some special trick or input for the focus stance change parry thing. I tried this so many times in matches today and never once did I get this to work and I think it would help in some of the fireball heavy matches.

376

Actually, you kinda have to be really fast at it. I mean, REALLY fast!
I’ve been able to consistently do it manually, but if you mess it up, you’re just going to do a very SLOOOWWW focus attack, in which your opponent can punish with whatever the heck they like.
What I do is as soon as I focus, I switch stances. So, imagine double tapping a single button.
Only that what you’re “double-tapping” is this: FA-PPP/KKK. So it sounds like, “ta.ta” lol, it’s REALLY fast.
But if you want a shortcut, you can use the 7th or 8th button (LB/LT or L1/L2) which is either the PPP/KKK. and just press the button the moment you focus. You have like 1-frame to do it.

Good luck trying to master it.

377

Match-up advice against Sagat:

Crane Crouching Fierce goes underneath his high fireball.
Credit to whoever mentioned it before me, and if not previously discovered, then have fun punishing with 180dmg! lol

378

Well, here’s the thing. After making sure you absorbed the fireball at the very 1st frame of focus, You have to do one of two things:

  1. Do a focus-kara stance change as you would do a kara throw. So, at the 1st frame your input will be mp + mk, and at the 2nd frame your input will be mp + 3k (or 3p + mk)
  2. Use the freeze time when you absorb. At the 1st frame you input mp + mk, and as you absorb you either release your mp + mk then press 3p or 3k lightning speed, or slide input the other 2 punches (or kicks) and release all four buttons at the same time. All these needs to be done in less than 10 frames, IIRC.
379

i suck at focus stance change.

street i like your second method, but my fingers wont move fast enough to tap the buttons in time or release all the buttons at once

somebody make a tutorial pls.

so i tried this out today and it definately added a bunch of range to the grab. so good shit for finding that, amazing find. but i have questions about your wording.

did you mean to say start out in mantis?

i tried it from crane to mantis and kara back threw with mk. i coulda swore it added a bunch of range to the throw, but maybe my eyes played tricks on me because of gens faster walk speed

im gonna go back into training mode and try it the way you worded it

380

Re Cammy:
Are you saying the match up is in Cammy’s favour or Gen’s?

Either way some tips on the match up:
Zoning is king, Cr Fp beats her long range jump in attempts.

Wait and punish her hooligan flip crap. You have lk gekiro, ex gekiro, mantis u1. or jab or whatever. If cammy gets lazy and does her spinning backfist after a knock down or to get in…punish with mantis ultra 1.

Punish her empty jumps, or whiffed jumps from range with mk hands (make sure you have the frame advantage from her landing frames) to push her back out.

Space yourself out of her spiral arrow range if you read she is advancing in that way and mk hands it when it whiffs.
If she gets in (this is what you’re trying to avoid all match and she will be even deadlier in AE when she does get in) do your best to block. The scariest thing she can do is tick throw since it resets the situation with another mix up from her.

Also know that lots of cammys like to Tiger Knee Air Drill after a knockdown - mantis ultra,supers beats this fairly well if you read it so punish it. If they start cross up instead…dash forward and out of that corner.

Edit - make sure to knock her down and bait and punish EVERY canin spike. It will open up your pressure game.