his LK follow up is fast enough to hit you while you jump
tried that in training mode and in a real game too
its weird that you could jump over that :\
Ok so I tested out the Rufus messiah stuff.
In general if you block an EX messiah kick just reversal lk waterfall kicks
-hits him in recovery of no follow up
-hits him in recovery even after a blocked lk follow up (but you can land a sMP or sHP combo here as well for more dmg)
-hits him out of the mk follow up
-hits him out of the HK follow up
Other versions of waterfall kick work in some cases and not in others. Messiahs MK sweep actually hits you out of reversal MK and HK version.
Mantis Super works on all but one of the above though its suggested you stand up during messiah kick to make it easier
-looses to hk follow up unless done late as he will go over you (note: In some cases Rufus is so close to you anyway he crosses you up with this follow up anyway)
Crane Super
-Beats HK follow up does not work anywhere else
Yeah it is bullshit. There’s a way or two to beat the move clean but I can’t remember and it’s highly situational.
If you’re in the corner and Rufus does U2, you just got chipped
No idea who you are but you may as well. You’re in the right thread and either we’ll agree or disagree with your advice (??)
Also, more information on a couple of Rufus and Honda OS’s here http://shoryuken.com/f274/gen-option-selects-219512/#post9742110
really? i guess i need to check again. i remember it tagging me jumping away, but when i tried going foward i avoided it. maybe it depends on the amount they delay the follow up
thanks for double checking me anyway guys
Theory fighter ATM, but Rufus U2 can be beat by doing an invincible move at the last possible moment (that has enough invincibility), since it has really long startup. So [M] U1, should work, even point blank, if you activate it late (not on reversal). Not sure if the vacuum makes this a non-issue, but I know I can do it with Balrog’s U1 (but he has more invul frames).
Yeah it gets underneath the hitbox of the st.rh.
I had no idea about the Gen OS thread. I should probably look around more instead of sticking to 3 threads.
Hey, those are really good option selects.
Thanks for pointing that out =]
Okay, the Honda match-up isn’t all that bad in my opinion.
You can’t jump-in on him because he can have headbutt ready.
But, you can turtle your way through.
Maybe this was already known, but Crane Roundhouse beats all versions of his headbutts clean on reaction. You don’t need to jump, or waste meter. Throw out that Crane Roundhouse whenever you see one.
(Crane roundhouse also counter’s Adon’s Off-the-wall kicks, even EX version. Blanka Ball, all versions, just treat it as a Honda headbutt. I believe it also beat’s out Fei-long’s chicken wing, or at least trades in our favor, in which then you can just throw out the Crane roundhouse again and catch them on the second hit (needs to be tested). They’ll never gonna wanna throw those dumb specials once they all know we can punish on reaction, then they will be stuck playing footsies with us, and that’s when we get them =D)
And here’s the mindgame: once you condition your opponent to realize that he can’t headbutt for free, here’s the PERFECT time to use Crane crouching fierce. He may attempt to do a light version of his headbutt at a distance, in which you can just take a step forward, and punish his whiff headbutt with Crane crouching fierce. I believe Crane Roundhouse does 150dmg and Crane crouching fierce does 180dmg (correct me if i’m wrong). This tactic can also work against short Blanka Balls, and Adon off-the-wall kicks. Crane Roundhouse is an underestimated move.
Aside from that, Honda’s buttslams aren’t really a problem for Gen. You can focus through them, but not the reversal buttslams. Ochio throw is no match for Gen’s grab-invulnerable Geriko =D
Gen has better footsies than Honda, but you have to be careful not to fall into Honda’s traps. Whatever you do, don’t backdash on wake-up, it’s way better to do a Geriko, at least there if your opponent knows you won’t backdash, he may try an Ochio, in which Geriko will counter clean. But, I guess play as you’d like =]
In this match-up, Gen’s sweep is a powerful poking tool. Use it outside Honda’s own sweep range.
And don’t forget about Gen’s frame traps! Especially that Mantis st.mp.
This match-up is even, if not in favor of Gen. But yeah, take my advice with a grain of salt.
Yeah, all those throws should have been Gerikos!
On that same note:
crane s.hk can punish alot of crap actually, like Blanka balls on reaction (including EX) and even with a trade it in in Gens favor. I use it all the time if I don’t have super or ultra.
Good to know about crane HK, hopefully I can con our Honda into some matches today and try it out.
Has anyone found a solid AA on Honda that is not EX Gekiro? Most everything I have tried (mantis: sHP, reg Gekiro / crane: cHK) all seem to get stuffed clean or trade which is never good in this match up. I find I never have super because if Honda gets jumpy I would rather score a clean AA for decent dmg than risk letting him start his mix ups and pressure.
REALLLLLLLLLLLY
FUCK BLANKA
THANK YOU WARLIKE, YOU ARE THE BEST MAN i EVER LIKED.
Im not being sarcastic, I simply NEVER beat Blanka’s, its like a bull seeing red, I immediately go on full tilt and lose to his shenanigans, I honestly dont know how to punish him except to walk into him and use intuition on when to block.
Haha no problem, glad to help out the community out any way I can. It takes some practice but once you get the timing right Blanka should never be able to blanka ball you from further than halfscreen without getting a foot in his face. All trades are in your favor except for ex ball. Make him respect that roundhouse!
Yeah trading against honda sucks, his normals at jump in rape Gens unfortunately. It’s a hard matchup for sure, probably my worst. Has been since vanilla 
Well good to know at least that it isn’t just me and that Honda jump ins are that good in this match. It would just be nice if I could reliably get and use super in this match especially for the OSes it gives but so far it just isnt happening.
You can also try crane s.hk, I actually have been thinking about this for some time now. I never really used it as an anti-air but It’d seem to me that if used properly it’s helpful. Also, if it hits only once (instead of regular 2 hits) you can combo into crane super (even though it looks like hes 1 frame from hitting the ground, don’t let that fool you!).
The problem with honda jump in j.hp is it’s reach, if he jumps in from far everything Gen does will probably trade as an anti-air. But if he jumps in from a little closer…you should be able to beat him clean. I still haven’t found an asnwer for that goddamn neutral j.hp of his though…
EDIT: just tested crane s.hk against Honda’s j.hp and it is able to beat it clean from about 2 tiles distance in training mode, pretty good me thinks but I’ll have to experiment more. I recorded honda doing his j.hp fairly late in the jump to make sure.
EDIT2: Just for the lulz you can charge back during the animation of the crane s.hk and if it hits twice do roll (your in crane mode anyway) to keep the pressure on immidiately.
I dont mess with Honda’s n jump FP in the air at all it is too good there. But I dont mind seeing Honda to it when I am on the ground because one, if he has done that he has no charge for anything else and two if you can get the move to whiff you have an advantage in that you can at least get in a poke or block string or a free jump in on him with no charge so you can frame trap or tick throw or whatever. This all depends on how they are using it though. If they get predictable with it or over use it thats ok with me. I will also sometimes focus absorb the hit dash in and go for back grab depending on spacing. Since back grab removes the fear of headbutt on wake up and sets up Gen’s OSes if he has any meter at all.
Gen also can use a trick on Honda’s wake up that Abel can in that you can fake as though you are going to pressure his wake up then jump back MK (mantis) this seems to beat the butt slams as well as dodge or beat all headbutts. Its a ghetto trick though because if Honda doesn’t fall for it you just gave him space all over again.
If your ever going to play your friends honda again, you should know that honda can’t do neutral jump hp if you have super or ultra, if well timed Gens mantis U1 can rip him from almost full screen. The same goes for Chunli’s that like to do neutral jump hk. Against Akuma it’s even better: he can’t use air fireballs (unless done REALLY close to the ground) at all if Gen has super or ultra. Same with ibukis kunai throws.
I’m sure your friend has no idea of this though, so that’ll be handy.
Yeah I saw that and I really like that you can shut that option down but I never have super in this match sadly. Both Honda players here are more aggressive in general and since they cant use jabxxhands pressure due to Gen’s better pokes I need the meter to stop them from jumping in on me all day. Even if I block the jump in my options are guess on Gekiro or back dash or block/tech. Two wrong guesses and thats the round. Though the worst they can do to the BD is sHK I think so if I do have to block the jump in BD is usually the option I prefer to go to.
I wont get any Honda practice though I dont think until the weekend. I will get plenty or Ryu, Boxer, Bison and Fei after the feast tomorrow though.
It would take some timing (and proper spacing), but for the butt slams, you can forward dash under him to break his back-charge, then whiff punish with [M] st.mp/st.mk etc etc. He recovers almost instantly once he touches the ground, but you can also add that to the mixup once you land the whiff punish once since he’ll be ready to retaliate this time with something else.
Honda should die :lol:
It all depends on to which point they’re jumping. Well timed c.HP should stuff all air normals in which the jump lands in front of you. In most cases forward jump -> Walk forward -> Sweep works like a charm against jumps on top of you, and Honda cannot punish max range sweep on block. Crane nj.HK can work nicely in some cases.
Yea I don’t try to go against Honda’s nj.HP either, except for LK Oga Far Kick to land in front of them and then sweep. Again, it depends on whether they like headbutt more or nj.HP more.
I really use forward dash a lot when I’m against jumping Hondas. I still haven’t got a solid strategy, but I think I’m starting to get there.