I hoped Shitenketsu was improved somehow, oh, well… besides this, so Crane basically was left unchanged?
Don’t know if it’s been addressed, but it’s something I just heard about that would make a lot of sense. After I got home from a local AE ranbat (which I got destroyed at), two players, one of which won the whole thing with Yun, were discussing the fact that they believe Yun has a much quicker wake-up speed compared to the rest of the cast.
This would make a ton of sense, since my safe jumps and other setups after knockdown with Gen seem useless on the twins, but mainly Yun in particular. I haven’t figured out how or if they can be cross-up gekiro’d, but I’m sure this would make it a lot harder, too. I hate the match-up tremendously, but I’m sure it won’t be so bad after AE’s out on console and we get time to really study the match-up.
he most certainly does seem like he gets up quicker. almost adon-like. but i haven’t been able to verify it for sure.
It can be difficult to safe jump his DP. I think that depending on the strength, it has faster startup. They all seem to have good invincibility too, so cross-dps with Yun are pretty powerful. My friend who plays him says that EX is 4 frames?
Yun also has a small frame, far as character sizes go. Sometimes it helps with making cross ups really ambiguous, sometimes it hurts by making you do them too deep, but I’d just rather treat him like AE Makoto and never jump in on his wakeup. It really is a difficult match, and I’d rather not fuck with his DP unless i’m doing deep ogas or non-meaty mixup on his wakeup. I’m sure with time, people will adjust.
I don’t think he gets up faster than others, though.
Lk mk hk ex: 5, 6, 8, and 4 frame startups respectively.
so according to that frame data, all dive kicks are negative on block?
Yep, but they can be done deep
if the kicks hit above waist level you can throw him or srk him before he can attack. i did throw him a few times after his dive kick and i’m not sure if the guy was os’ing or not, but given who he was, i’m pretty sure it had crossed his mind after the third time i did it.
otherwise, if it’s coming below the waist, if the timing and spacing is right, you can c.mp yun out of his dive kick. that is if you want to take the risk. otherwise, you’d be better off nj. attacking him.
so reversal fierce hands would be a decent option after blocking one.
this might be an ultra 2 match as well.
theoretically you could jump back away from his pressure, and see if he goes up for another DK, and ultra. just have to be aware of his low short range before dropping the low block
well, theoretically, there’s probably a lot you can do against yun. however, pulling it off… yes, he’s pretty annoying.
to be honest, the worst ones are the ones who play defensive. he can build meter so fast and has so many options to keep you from attacking.
I wonder if the extended vertical hitbox will hit him out of the dive kick while still getting the full punish without that dumb “2 hits” throw across the screen.
i didnt think about that. i guess i should specify a little better. i was thinking about crane U2
Dev blog said nothing else was changed, so I doubt that will happen.
It said it was extended downward. Idk if someone else mentioned this or not, but you cannot currently punish Blanka’s blocked U1 with reversal Mantis U2 (reversal Ultra after blocking the first low hit then hitting him on the way down). It whiffs and you get owned. It should punish him properly after changes. It would also be capable of punishing Fuerte’s U2 if you decided to do an empty jump and he got baited. IIRC, it whiffs and you get owned in console SSF4.
Oh, btw, we all know c.MP became 5f start-up, so if it keeps its active and recovery frames, it should be 19f total, which is the same with forward dash. Maybe we can do a safe-jump setup with forward grab -> dash once -> mantis c.MP whiff -> fj normal?
yeah, you should be able to. you can do one now with it on 7 frame reversals, but it has to be frame perfect
There is no preferable ultra in this matchup.
If you can react to lunge punches with U1 Mantis, I’d say go ahead and use that. However, it’s kinda difficult to do and they only randomly throw it when trying to chip you out. Most Yuns will dive kick spam the hell out of gen because he doesn’t really have a good answer for it. U1 mantis and crane are too slow to AA divekicks that are meaty (they all should be meaty), your j.hkx2 will get beat out A2A because of Yun’s j.hk so no hit confirm to crane u1, Yun’s TC makes it too hard to land a focus crumple because it’s so fast, and Oga is really suicide in this match. (You might be able to bait his DP and auto-correct mantis u1 though, i’ll try it out.)
I use U2 in this matchup BECAUSE it does the 2 hit knockback. The knockback resets distance to where Gen can actually win against the twins. If he’s spamming divekick on you, the worse that happens is that he gets knocked back, the best is that he gets hit for full animation because of landing frames.
I almost feel like Gen needs to keep space this match-up much like the Fei match. You win this fight by playing defensively and not letting him in. S.mp for divekicks that aren’t done above Gen’s torso. KKK nj.hp can help. S.hk makes for a good frame trap and footsies tool now, but don’t throw it out too often because of DP and focus attacks. Don’t AA with PPP c.hp… it gets killed by divekick. KKK c.hk is still good, but it will trade sometimes and let Yun in range.
I’m pretty sure that if you can anticipate his meter building when he does palm, you can TK U2 Crane for punish. Remember that it is projectile invincible. If he feints palm, then you eat combo and have to deal with mixup. There’s another strategy of putting yourself at (fei rekka) range, where Yuns will want to start jumping to apply dive kick spam… you can try to get them to start jumping, and then jump back u2 Crane. As long as you’re higher than them, will hit above their feet (the dive kick hitbox) and do some good damage. Both are gimmicky, I know, and jumping back is putting yourself in the corner, where you don’t want to be against Yun.
It’s a tough match. I’m sure more strategies will develop.
I don’t know if this is something new on SSF4AE, but I can’t reproduce it on SSF4 training mode. I don’t know if it’s me or what.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyYlunF6-1U @ 2:08 the Ogra Crossup Setup he does.
He slightly walks forward, without losing the charge, and make the Oga kick, but I can’t do it on the training room. Maybe it’s one of the changes from SSF4 to SSF4AE?
EDIT: Nevermind, I just found a SRK user who does this trick in SSF4. It’s just me that I can’t do it.
The Dhalsim matchup got much better. Still difficult, but now is 5-5 when it was closer to 6-4 sim before.
details please. i need specifics.
U2 can punish most of his jump back normals on whiff, including yoga snipe on block from full screen. His j.mp, which used to destroy Gen A2A, now trades or loses with our KKK j.mp/j.hp. This alone is awesome. U2 I think is the definite go-to now for this.
His damage nerf makes the war of attrition easier, his short also got nerfed. TC allows for you to stay in his face during blockstrings and push him into the corner. The TC also allows for heavier punishes when you do actually land a hit. His short spam gets beaten out by throw a lot now and you can afford to trade more with his moves. This is great for people who instead like to play this match more aggressively.
I’ve got some limited use out of frame trapping with the tip of S.HK too. My friend, a very good Sim main, says that the matchup suddenly got much more difficult for him.
thats pretty awsome. ive got a sim sparring buddy too. main thing i hated about that match was getting in and getting shorted back out. frame trapping into the TC should be a viable strat as well
only reason i stuck with U1 in that match before was to punnish yoga sniper on block. if U2 can do it, i’ll definately be making a change