Exactly! Gief was an easy match before. After nerfing his major knock down tool, the match feels a bit easier even.
And I know that it goes over a lot of them, but a plenty of crouching strong/fierce/short/rh attacks actually DO hit it, I just don’t know which ones off the top of my head. Can you still go over them if the timing is correct?
gief was an easy match for cody? WTF?!?!?! Im gonna have to severely disagree with those statements =) Real gief’s dont jump. Even if you throw rocks. Gief dominates cody on the ground, free. I will admit, ex hand not knocking down, and not giving gief any real advantage when done from max range helps cody out. But it’s still in giefs favor, easily
It’s not easy at all but Gief ‘dominating’ Cody on the ground I disagree with. Cody has a lot of ways to deal with Gief’s normals. I use c.MP OS MK/EX Ruff to counter poke his s.MP (works quite well) and Cody’s s.HK is a good tool for keeping Gief out, although c.LP OS EX GH rapes it.
I stay within LP GH’s max range because this prevents Gief from gaining ground using GH and allows you to hit him with the tip of s.HK (harder to c.LP OS). I use Bad stone to chip him away when I score a knockdown and also set up traps (Also I use the knife in this MU, which evens it out a LOT. It’s a gatlike tool against Gief.
-It increases the range on his pokes
-Allows him to mash 4 c.LP’s (pushing him out of LP SPD range)
-s.MP with the knife is a good counter poke against Giefs s.MP and the hitbox of Cody is too far for any c.LP OS or s.LK OS
-All blocked punches cause chip damage (so Cody can slowly take the lead or take it back)
-j.MP with the knife is a VERY good air-to-air (I use Jump back MP to keep my distance)
-Cody can OS Super into s.MP,s.HP, c.MP to catch a poke
-c.HP with knife can whiff punish s.HK (Far) to hit confirm into Ultra 2, c.LK, EX CU, c.HK, s.MP (Good range) and c.MP
-You can still use Zonk while holding the knife
-You can still use kick normals (s.HK for your long range poke, s.MK for your ‘stay out of LP SPD range’ poke and s.LK for a quicker ‘stay out of LP SPD range’ poke)
-You can hitconfirm into MK Ruffian to send him to the other side of the screen
This is from experience as well, the MU is far from easy because one knockdown could be game over but Cody can keep Gief out very well.
Keeping Gief out seems like it’ll be harder now with his improved Range on lp SPD ;-;
if he is THAT close you allready failed to keep him out :3
Yea, I am terrible at keeping good giefs out D:
I don’t base strats around the knife. Cuz well you gotta get to it first of all and strong giefs make it hard for you to advance forward to even get the knife. As good as the knife can be in certain matchups, it won’t always be an option.
As for c.strong buffer into ruffian, its the only tool that is decent. I’ve played vs vance, jan and other giefs, and while we will play the ground game and ill get my hits in from max range, the problem will be that it’s only single hits with no knockdown most of the time. While gief from max range, can score hits more reliably into knockdowns. Granted, my vs gief experience is extremely limited in ae and ex doesn’t knockdown anymore, but in super console, gief has the advantage. Cody works harder. Plus gief jab spd range is incredibly bullshit. He can sit outside your max range, barely walk forward, and grab you. Not to mention more reliably grabs limbs due to extended range.
Or maybe my cody just sucks? Heh
Too true about giefs jab spd range. D:
Thought it was bullshit in SSF4 in AE he got even more bullshitty D:
Granted, I don’t have match experience with top level Giefs, but I’ve never really had much of a problem. Any Gief loss I’ve taken was me failing to keep him out and getting vortexed to death.
I’ll admit I hadn’t thought about the buffed spd range. I have a feeling there isn’t going to be much more to talk about in this thread. The first post should just say “nothing major, don’t worry about it.”
seriously, i thought for a while cody beat gief. but when i play vance, jan, and other notable giefs(there really arent many legit giefs out there), that mentality switched fast.
Yeah, I have to agree with Sabre on this one. I had a good set with Jan at UFO in AE and the Gief match is just as bad as it ever was. Gief wins the ground mid range poke game which sets up his GH OS’s, which don’t knock down anymore but force you to make a decision in a split second as to how to counter his next move which usually brings you closer to the corner because face it, if you don’t backdash or jump away or get a lucky EX Zonk in, you’re fucked. St RH is a great poke if Gief is walking forward, but at mid range, Gief can sit and crouch and OS low jab/short into GH and also, if you’re just throwing it out there, St. RH is pretty easy to whiff punish due to it’s recovery.
Gief may not have the knockdown setup he once had, but this match is still heavily in his favor. Not to say Cody can’t win the match, You just have to be very precise on your whiff punishing and anti-air game as well as making sure you make Gief adhere to your pace rather than allow him to set his own.
Also Jan gave me some advice that may help. He seems to believe a good rock/fake rock spacing is needed for this fight. Still working on zoning with rocks/fake rocks so maybe this is the key to this matchup. shrug
yeah thats what i had to do to fight jan at scr. lots of fake rocks scenarios. he wont jump, so you gotta work hard to force him to jump.
you pretty much summed the matchup up perfectly. The other problem as well, is even tho green hand doesnt knockdown, gief, when landing some good mid range hits, pushes you to the corner faster as opposed to when cody lands some solid hits.
Everything points in gief’s favor. Cody’s strengths are rushdown. you cant rushdown gief. Hell, cody cant even beat gief’s nerfed lariat from console version due to very poor priority on jump attacks(j.jab being your best option if you decide to jump in on him).
The only thing gief really has to fear, is some annoying rocks/fake rocks here and there,and doing a lariat at the wrong time when cody has u2 ready. at best, IMO, gief wins 6.5-3-5, that stands in AE, imo
You don’t think it got any better in AE? My main issue was the walk speed deal versus gief. It just seems like cody can’t get away when a good gief closes the gap.
Oh without a doubt man. the walk speed is another factor that i failed to mention. That is what makes cody’s footsie game really weak, as opposed to gief who has better walk speed, backwalk in particular. Its dangerous to sit outside an opponents max effective range due to the fact that most characters forward walk speed is much faster than cody’s back walk. You really play with fire trying to play footsies with a lot of characters. the opponent can get within striking range and go low, before cody ever has a chance to walk back into a safe zone, and he has to always be ready to block low, more than most characters. Back dash doesnt help in this situation either since it covers almost no ground, and it takes longer to execute than just simply walking back.
definitely add that to the list of issues cody does have vs gief… =(
im not sure if its just as bad in AE. I am on the fence about this. On one hand, ex GH doesn’t knockdown, which stops him from getting his vortex. But since it doesnt knockdown, You have much les time to regain your train of thought and are instantly forced to guess after getting hit. after ex gh, is gief going to jab spd/ultra/super? will he lariat? will he OS into another ex gh and force another guess heavily in his favor? The only real way out of all of these options is if you have 3 stocks and you ex bingo fadc. The problem with that is, if gief reads that, even if you fadc back dash, you are still well within range to eat basically everything gief has to offer, including jab spd, if ex is done close to you. If you jump after he lands ex GH, gief may lariat or headbutt. You backdash, he can jab spd, or OS GH, or just sweep. You can ex CU if you think he will throw. But guess wrong, you will eat spd and he gets his knockdown. You might get lucky with EX CU if he decides to poke with c.jab or c.short and you manage to trade. If it trades, you get a free ultra 2. so keep in mind, if you ever do EX CU as a reversal, always be ready to ultra incase you trade with jab or short
in terms of forward speed cody = zangief. they share the same speed.
W/this in the arcades getting high level play it’d be nice for Capcom to release a .2 ver or whatever featuring a single small buff (NO NERFS to anyone!) to bottom quarter characters (based on High Level input). They seem hell bent on keeping Cody as is for style>substance…while a small speed buff would do wonders for his all-around game. While Guy gets pretty polish, Cody’s gets left nakkey in the shower.
That said overall Capcom “appears” to have done a pretty good job leveling the field for most characters.
shrug Its a buff yes, but i think its being a bit exaggerated. It’s not a gameplay changer. Its only ONE small training mode square.
For this MU that may simply mean some CU punishes with jab SPD vs lk xx ex gh. And Gief cant LP GH over after an spd as fast as before for a solid meaty mix up.
Overall this MU is definitely in Giefs favor. If Giefs lose to you for free, he isn’t that good. But a good defensive Cody can zone him the phuck out which makes it a competitive match for the most part.
So i was playing AE last night and believe me, the range on the jab SPD makes a big difference. i didn’t really ever have trouble with the gief match up in super but it was a bitch last night. other then that i really didn’t notice to many changes in cody’s game, the crack kick changes are awesome though.
I was experimenting in SSF4 and remembered that after an AA focus attack all move that juggle get an extra juggle point. This means in Cody’s crack kick would be equivalent to AE Cody. I started experimenting and the moves you can juggle after a crack kick are:
This is relevant information for AE because Crack kick in AE was buffed to have an extra juggle point like the situation I used. Some of the moves used have to be after an AA or trade Crack kick of course but there’ll be many situations where this will happen and this is worth knowing.
This could potentially mean that if the same situation arises but in AE Cody may be able to use U2 and get the full animation. A possibility! When I get my hands on AE I will be experimenting with this some more.
interesting observation. I will try and test that today!