Is the jury still out on the the Kongo? I’ve not yet played 2012 and I am curious to see how the supposed changes to this move impact on game play. Do you still have to guess against the twins’ dive kicks or even regular jumps (deep vs non-deep etc.)?
AFAIK, even with the slightly extended hitbox, the same gimmicky crap still happens; like some random attacks not triggering the explosion; certain moves blow through it, etc.
MP Kongo seems noticeably better. HP Kongo seems the same to me.
GOUKEN ALL THE WAY BABY!!! IT TIME TO TAKE EAT MY SPINACH!!! LOL
Maybe it’s been said but cl.st.mp > st.mp > cr.mp xx hk flip will cross up much if not all of the cast. My mp button is going to need to be replaced, lol.
s.MP is so good now.
It certainly is, but I still wish they gave us a light crouch attack combo into hado.
Our Hadou does not work that way. For a light to do such it would have to have crazy recovery or ridiculous blockstun(which could result in lots of other peculiar stuff when cancelling from it) and who knows what for peculiar effect that might have in corner combos. They would quite probably need to retool Gouken in numerous ways leaving him very different.
Our hadou has slow startup for a reason(main one I notice is corner infinites with cl.MK, besides counterbalancing our awesome recovery)
For a slight insight into our hadou vs other hadou
+Great Recovery(41vs ryus 45)
+Angeld
+High hitbox vs Tatsus over Hadou
+Blockstun leaves us at an advantage(ryu is -6 at worst, but suffers a bit less from it thanks to its startup +c.mk distance)
+Hitstun allows links(ryu is -2 on hit, which is funny, we are +2 and +6 while he is -6 and -2)
+can multihit without EX(but very noticable so lacks versatility)
-slow startup so fewer normals combo withit or blockstring(17vs ryus 13(which when adding recovery lets you know we have same total frames as Ryu)
-high hitbox disadvantageous vs moves that go under fireballs, ibuki and cammy don’t need meter to go under(notice how this offsets the other one)
-only one speed
-no multihitting ex(but gouken has tons of ways through over fireballs from distances, now also denjin)
In this game you rarely get advantages without having something that compensates the advantage(except maybe AE Yun :3 )
personally I think we would have to give up a lot of our other advantages for them to make our hadou work in a way that makes it combo off lights or even c.MP.
Instead of going the route of buffing Gouken by just giving him what everyone else can do, they try and do stuff with his unique stuff like making palms combo better. It is an approach I vastly prefer, instead of just going what ever, lets give him srk, let him combo hadou and combo off lights blindfolded.
Just a my 2 cents(more like sock of quarters I bashed your head in with though, sorry for voluminous text)
Best way to cancel any standing normal into SRK is to, in your mind, try your best to distinguish between the button press and the forward motion for the DP. Don’t move your stick forward until you’ve felt yourself press the button. Then do a rapid SRK motion and press the button again (or negative edge it, but I’m terrible at that).
Lots of characters have this problem… Ryu with close HP into DP, for instance. It’s just a muscle memory thing, one you have to learn just like cr.MK xx super, or DP FADC ultra, or anything like that. It’s a lot easier if you try to get over your mental block of starting the motion at the same time as your button press, because then your hands kinda just do their own thing. Take your stick and try practicing: button press, move the stick forward a bunch (don’t even complete DP motion). Make sure your button press is several frames before you even touch the stick.
Some of the most basic but most effective ways to improve technique and muscle memory.
Great info. Basic but so important!
My problem is dashing forward and trying to hit a button and follow with a hado. I almost always end up with a srk with Akuma or palm with Gouken, usually at the worst possible time.
I will still always wish cr.mp (I know, I said light crouch attack before) could combo into hado. It would virtually complete the character for me. His mediums and heavies are awesome now and compensate for his shitty lights and I am happy with almost everything that Gouken is. I’ve learned to deal with and accept his awkward wake up. I no longer think it is shit, just awkward and full of educated guesses. I love when people say, “Oh, you just need to learn how to block”. Really dude? Is it that easy? I can win the whole game if I just learned how to hold away from your character? Stop tick throwing and delay throwing and lag throwing and command grabbing and air grabbing and using overheads and unblockables (there are such things) and then, I can “just block”.
BTW, I have been trying to pepper in some kara hado into my game thanks to you. There was definitely one match where my opponent was getting overwhelmed with my approaching spam of plasma that kept getting faster and faster. I could almost see the frustration on Ryu’s face. Of course, he jumps right into the shiny whirlwind of death and despair. Other times I was not as effective. The timing is still weird but getting better. After this, I will move on to the kara focus and then…to taking over the WORRRRLLLD!!! MWUHAHAHAHAHA!
A
Framedata tables list recovery as “total frames”.
Gouken’s fireball has, in fact, 16 preparation frames + frame he actually launches the fireball + 24 recovery frames
Ryu has 12 preparation frames + frame the fireball shows up + 32 recovery frames
Climax … please add slide kara, it may not be a true 1frame cancel as it seems to be a fractions bit longer by a hair or something but i think it covers the MOST distance of any similar kara type move. For slide-kara throws my feelings are a bit mixed as I have yet to find exactly when and how it works best , I just know that shit goes deeeeep, but for slide hadou’s it cant be beat , Viper was even jockin’…juss sayin…
I really love the active frames buff to far HP. As a “defensive poke” (ground game) it stuffs so many things clean and often scores a counter hit for 150DMG and 250Stun. I like.
And you can link sweep after a counterhit st.hp
Yes, unfortunately quite range dependant. Today evening I will test out far MK (better range), but 1fr, I believe.
Played 2012 for a moment, and Gouken felt easier to use. They took out the “shrunk lower body hurtbox on the start-up of overhead” on the final list of changes, but I can guarantee it is there. I made Akuma’s cr.MK whiff so many times on the range where I couldn’t before. It almost -feels like the frontal half of his body is immune to low attacks.
Denjin was hella fun to shoot with that speed.
I think the opponent blocked far st.MP xx MP Palm just once. I’m not sure maybe I made a mistake and accidentally cancelled into HP Palm.
The only thing that felt weird is palming through hadoukens. I kept eating counter hits :lol:
It’s one of my favourite things to say though. However I have NEVER made an allusion that it’s easyand is in fact one of the most difficult things in the game. Something I often prove as my opponents don’t know how to stop bushing buttons and well, Gouken eats that for lunch.
Online however, eats Gouken for lunch as his design is NOT friendly to any form of lag unless they are really dumb(why would you keep jumping if I just c.HPd you 7 times in a row?), not to mention eats my playstyle which is centered on my reactions and ability to chose Goukens best normal for a certain job(Shoutouts to Goukens normals btw, I love those things, especially how capcom showed them some serious love in 2012, far Hp was already a beast and I was so sad at its damage nerf, thank you AE and 2012 <3).
Glad to hear man, our kara may not be ken status, but our focus and hadou are both better than his(except his airborne focus hitbox thing, that’s pretty sweet)
Kara focus is a big thing thanks to how good our focus is(pity backdash is crap, but we gotta balance out somewhere(heck one buff that I think would cement Gouken as S tier would be a (much)better backdash). Gouken is tough to play, but once you start playing with all his tools readily at your disposal it just becomes a total nightmare for some opponents out there, even more when they don’t even know whats going on(common except amongst other dutch players, I fear I’ve been teaching them the matchup too well XD)
That’s one that always puzzeld me, as normals tend to not work that way(ive seen normals with less recovery than startup and activation added together -1), but reading fireballs always struck me as odd. I’ve never quite gotten that.
Because the startup lists the time required for it to attack, not the preparation frames.
Startup is preparation + 1st active frame