Damn, that doesnt look good for the Giefies. I had hopes they would buff his spd game in general, so you land closer to the opponent after knockdown. But to nerf his post spd knockdown game is no good news. Gief has nearly no wakeup game now. And this was his strongest apect by far. Are we now fishing and counterpoking for high dmg spd’s? I really would like to hear something from the designer why they nerf and tweak a mid-tier char that much ? I cant see how it is for balancing reasons.
Has anybody an idea when we can expect to get frame data?
Some of the Sydney play I’ve just seen…
Gief vs Sim: [media=youtube]p-eQ6NJ_0Qc[/media]
vs Rog: [media=youtube]-aBVXWj6LZg[/media]
vs Ken: [media=youtube]ag9XYpbAoKk[/media]
I’m sticking with Gief.
This makes me really sad.
Holy crap, that sucks. I was hoping that Gief would be even more positive after a SPD -> Green Hand, but they did the opposite. So EX GH doesn’t knock down and it takes even more time to Green Hand over after an SPD. Is it possible that LP SPD does more stun to partially make up for this? (Doubtful…and I don’t think it’d really compensate anyway).
Is the “vortex” officially dead? :amazed:
As if the news wasn’t bad enough till this point. Why the hell would they take away frame advantage after spd? So basically they want to make gief a walking punching bag now. So since nobody wants a good gief anywhere near them, it seems that capcom is doing everything they can to help them all out.
you noobs need to quit bitching. They nerfed the thing retarded about him (ability to guess right a few times in a row on wakeup and 100-0 someone that his completely outplaying you) and gave him a more solid game. Ex gh is now the same as Kens ex tatsu except they have a freaking grappler in their face. Capcom was probably just tired of scrubs jumping over and over again trying to score a knockdown and then completely guessing on wakeup over and over.
So sorry, but looks like you guys are going to need to learn how to footsie and read your opponent, no longer will you win from 1 random ex gh. Sure, butter churnning got a little better for you scrubies, but he’s going to be much harder to compete with at a high level come AE. So either jump ship, like crybaby Ultradavid, or stick with the character we love, stop bitching, and focus on improving.
So what he’s nerfed, most of his bad matchups got better and he beats the top tier of characters.
Characters he beats that are upper tier:
Yun/yang (supposedly top tier), fei long, bison, balrog, rufus. Guile matchup got way easier and chun li got nerfed as well, and besides we couldn’t even do wakeup shennanigans on her in super. The characters we beat got buffed?
Juri, Gouken, Dee Jay, Makoto, hakan, etc.
Are you losers really crying that we are going to have a few more 5-5s?
christ…
Oh wow, you must have a short memory.
I think you’re the only person in the whole thread who even mentioned anything about dropping Gief. And now you’re calling other people noobs and losers.
Also, if you think that the Guile matchup got easier then…well, you’re just wrong.
less damage, less random ex sonicbooms/ flash kicks, nerfed air throw. I don’t see how you could think the matchup didn’t get better. Aw, boo hoo you can’t get a knockdown from ex gh. You guys aren’t considering the opponents options after landing it. So Guile can do nothing, flash kick, or jump back/jump up. Zangief is fine in any of those circumstances.
Dude above me is a troll. Pay no mention to his false antics.
Anyways, from what i’ve seen so far that EX-GH is pretty damn nerfed. It operates like how the EX-GH at MAX range hits only once in Super. Even at that range you can’t do anything. You get the damage (which is only 130 with both hits) Which is less than ken’s Fierce SRK (140 for 3 hits).
As much as I love gief’s vortex/guessing game, once you scored that knockdown it was literally over for some characters. Those who don’t have auto-correct reversals and anti-airs get absolutely steam-rolled. Hell once you get in on guile he barely stands a chance. The big thing being that if these non-reversal characters don’t have EX/invincibility move, Gief you can steam-roll them.
His cross-up guessing game is more advanced than ibuki’s.
Cross up on wake up options:
splash > cr. short > KKK lariat
splash > jab x 2 > SPD
splash > bnb hit confirm combos
Tick knees > Suplex
Deep Knees > bnb hit confirms
Deep Knees > jabs > spd
etc.
That doesn’t even cover stuff in front, empty jumps, fake cross ups, tick-throws, and lariats.
I have a feeling capcom wants Gief players to require high amounts of skill in terms of execution and reading your opponent. That means being able to capitalize on every mistake another player makes. Countless giefs I’ve seen online will do nothing but jump in jab jab > spd and spam lariats.
So to answer the question, did Gief get nerfed? Absolutely. However I think this is an opportunity to really distinguish good Zangief players. Just means, Back to training mode.
Keep the Red Army alive guys!
No, no, no. The whole matchup with Guile revolved around getting a knockdown and exploiting his weak as a hell crossup defense. One (maybe two) knockdown usually meant that it was over, and the match was still considered to be in Guile’s favor because getting that one knockdown was hard as hell. Now without that knockdown it’s going to be much harder.
Yeah his damage got nerfed so he might have to hit Gief one more time to finish him off, but he’s still gonna be damn hard to get in on and now we can’t exploit his weak crossup defense. I’m not boo-hooing, but I promise you, the Guile matchup got harder (or ar least stayed just as hard), just think about it a little more.
Edit: to iMatt:
I agree that that seems to be Capcom’s vision for Gief. They seem to be pushing him a little closer to his ST self. And I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad idea, but it just seems a little drastic to do mid-series like this. These changes are more like something I’d expect to see in SF5.
But don’t worry, I’m not dropping Gief. I honestly don’t care if he’s considered the worst character in the game, he’ll still be my main. Hell, I’m considering getting a Gief tattoo. 
Naw Hoblino. Let his ass keep dick riding Daigo and gettin his head pumped up thinking Gief is gonna be the shit now. And WE the scrubs? Did you proofread that bullshit you posted?
So a “solid game” is rarely being able to get in because most of the cast can zone the shit out of him, and then once he gets in not being able to do shit because he doesn’t have any reliable way to get damage other than a command throw that any flowcharter can jump or backdash out of? Check. Got it. Thank you for clearing that up, sensei.
I don’t know you, but shit like this translates to “I was ass in Super and have no idea what the fuck I’m talking about.” So Guile got way easier because he does less damage? Okay, lol. And who are you speaking for when you say “we” couldn’t do wakeup shenanigans on Chun Li in Super? Chun is free on wakeup, and that’s the only reason Gief had some sort of a chance in that match.
Oh but we have to learn footsies now. Did you miss the part where having good footsies doesn’t do shit anymore? The reward used to be a knockdown. Now its nothing because at max range cr.LK/LP o.s. EX Hand, Gief isn’t in range to do anything threatening.
Yea man, u trollin.
This is retarded. Dude, that easy mode Gief shit was only valid online. WHo did that in a real tournament and got anywhere???
Gief was nerfed HELLA BAD from sf4 to super and now even more for AE…wtf?
- Vortex opportunities divided in half
- O-S EX GH gains you absolutely nothing in footsies.
**3. EX GH through fireballs inst as threatening
Those were the ONLY 3 things that separated him from T.HAWK. What does Vangief have to say about this?
I honestly don’t even see the point of continuing to play super knowing our character is significantly different in AE
Ask yourself why Gief was able to compete against Guile, or why he had a solid fighting chance in matches like Dhalsim. Giefs entire meta game has always been to be retarded when he gets in. In ST a blocked jab/jump-in/Green Hand into SPD was a psuedo fucking combo. There’s no sign of Dudley losing his huge stun combos that go into 50/50s once he closes the gap in this game.
You really think 20-odd damage on an anti air made Guile a bad match? or that Chun Li’s (a match some even considered to be 3-7 in SSF4) changes made any difference to her ability to fight an un-nerfed Gief?
lol all over your comments. Infact, lol at you as a poster in general.
But perhaps you’d like to redeem yourself and show the Gief community the way by tearing it up at that mystery local scene of yours?
GTFO troll.
I honestly dont know what about Gief (from those vids) makes it a no brainer to stick with him. LOL
You know, i blame those idiots in the loctests that said “ex gh no KD thumbs up”
Keep in mind, capcom has to worry about EVERYONE. The tournament scene in retrospect to the rest of most SSF4 players is tiny.
In the tournament scene the vortex train still exists. It’s just used selectively when the opportunity comes up vs. as a main offensive strategy. We still have all the tools we need to get in and fuck up our opponents.
In SF4 gief was too good. He was easily right below Sagat tournament wise in terms of tier list. He was nerfed in SSF4. His lariats became fair, combos upped in difficulty to almost ST levels. SPD damages got nerfed, his jump arc became less floaty to help fake out the opponent with short-jumps. However since his tools became less players had to rely on knock-down to do pretty much do anything of damaging potential. Even so, gief is REALLY damned good in SSF4. The only reason people say he’s below average tier now is because of 3 very bad match-ups and his damaging combos are difficult. Most people don’t realize that gief is a footsie character. He’s a grappler yes, but his normals are something to fear.
Now the transition to AE only makes the point crystal clear that he is a footsie/grappler. Not a vortex character. In ST you couldn’t just SPD > Green-hand over > jump and continue a meaty mixup. You get in do your damage and then you’re put back out.
It means that if your gief required a vortex to win then I don’t believe you’re playing him properly. Those are the people who are going to jump ship.
I also play bison. I started playing him in SF4 where his psycho-crusher was ass and his normals weren’t anything special. It forced us to learn how to read our opponent more instead of knowing 2 block-strings, a tick throw, and safe wake up ex-psycho crushers in SSF4.
What capcom is doing (except for Akuma…not sure why they didn’t nerf his vortex lol) is evolving the community a bit. Trying to move from starters fighting game to ST levels of understanding fundamentals.
Btw,
O-S EX-GH will get you in. Just not INTO a vortex loop.
There’s always the posibility that he’s gotten buffs that we don’t know about yet. It’s possible (but I consider in unlikely) that many of his normals have received better hitboxes, and better hitboxes can mean a lot.
I just keep thinking that SURELY Capcom gave him more than a buff to Ultra 2 to make up for the EX GH nerf. But, who know?
I would think that one way to compensate for these nerfs would be to buff his jumping normals. Something like increasing the hitbox and shrinking the hurtbox on a few of his jumping attacks would make it harder to AA him and let him get in a little easier. Probably just wishful thinking, but it’s possible.
The game has not been overhauled enough to the point where the Gief that resembles his ST counterpart can really be successful. This is still a sf4 engine…lots of herp-a-derp, lenient reversal windows and it rewards your for getting your butt whooped with an ultra.
Pretty much spot on, the KD was the only thing Gief really had going for him, esp in MU’s like Guile and Sagat and now that is much MIA.
i like your style
Here’s how good Zangief was in SF4 and SSF4 as far as tournament play goes: no one had ever gotten top 3 in a singles major or won a team major with Zangief until Vangief did it just recently. And that “no one” is inclusive, it never happened (or was never reported) in Japan, Australia, Canada, Europe, wherever. Not Zangitan, Itabashi, Cantona, KOG, me, no one. Toward the end of SF4 arcade he was no better than top 5-6; toward the end of SF4 console he was about the same; and in SSF4 he was just a regular mid tier character. And yet he has had significant nerfs both times they’ve changed him.
I also thought that maybe his nerfs are driven by more casual players, but there aren’t even that many Zangiefs online anymore, too few I’d think to really drive Capcom to nerf him.
And James Chen said maybe they’re trying to make him more like in ST, but that doesn’t seem right to me. In ST he had threatening footsies because of his very fast ranged knockdown sweep, which he no longer has. In ST he had the ability to get guaranteed throws up close, and even when they weren’t guaranteed they were still pretty hard to escape; SF4 has way too many escapes for that to be possible.
Like I said, I don’t think AE Zangief is bad. He still has good pokes, damaging footsies (jab/short xx ex hand is still 150 or whatever, which is nice), good air attacks, great damaging mixups when he gets inside, and a still-too-good antiair lariat (the only thing I’ve ever thought should be nerfed about Gief, and seemingly the only thing they’ve left alone). I figure he’ll still have lots of even and slightly advantaged matchups. Some of his worst matchups, like Seth, Blanka, Guile, and Chun, were all nerfed, and Seth and Blanka were nerfed really hard at least as far as their anti-Zangief technology goes. But I also figure he’ll lose to more characters overall and have fewer even and advantaged matchups. I expect this game to be really well balanced, so he’ll still compete, I just think he’ll be towards the lower end of the tiers.
If this is the case, the devs are just a contradiction to themselves. There are characters that do pretty well online that are generally considered shit in a tourney scene and got significantly buffed (makoto, hakan, gouken, adon).
Giefs fall into a category with Blanka, great online, so-so in person…so we decided to nerf them.:rolleyes: