Guile too. I think he’ll be harder even with his nerfs. Since EXGH doesn’t knock down we can’t jump over him to exploit his sub-par wakeup game and he gets to keep his charge. Getting a knockdown against Guile will still be very important, but I guess now we’ll just have to find another way to do it.
And about Dhalsim. Won’t he be able to get a free teleport after every EXGH now? Would another EXGH be able to reach him if he teleports backwards after the first EXGH?
I wonder about the mindgames though. If Gief’s EX GH doesn’t knock down but puts him in range to LP SPD with the frame advantage to beat most moves, it should put the other character in a spot where they’re like “do I attack, escape, or do nothing” Nothing=lp SPD, attack can be blocked or SPD’d depending on if its a special or normal. And escape (ie jump back, backdash,etc) might lead to anti air green hand pursuit. It could be a pretty scary predicament. I’m not really a gief player but I’m thinking of this as someone on the other side of the fence as opposed to you gief players who think in a single track mind. I would honestly prefer the knockdown, I know most of the time its going to be either crossup slash, or empty jump 360. In which I’ll either block and escape or backdash. Eitherway, I feel its easier currently than it may be in the future. I would prefer to be on the ground with gief near me than standing in front of him at a frame disadvantage anyday of the week. Its easy to react to him…its hard to be proactive when you know that if you guess wrong you eat buffed SPD damage. Just my 2 cents
Im curious about Ex hand into U1. Sure, people will try to escape most of the time. It will be interesting what ways there are to punish any escape attempt. I dont think Gief will be significantly better or worse, he will for sure have another style. Like another user said, Capcom wants him to be more of a grappler. From the normals i would have prefered a buff for cmk (weird hitbox) sHK or cmp. But lets see what this shp punch is all about, i almost never use shp now. 2frame link for clk clk would be nice 
Tonight after scoring a dozen or so round ending “vortexes” off a O-S lp ex gh, I can’t but help think capcom hates gief.
On the flip I’ve been auto dp’ed out of the same amount of wake ups, but this is Giefs gameplay design…feast or famine.
What I need to do is watch some vance replays a little closer and see how much the KD helps at his level of play. Honest to goodness get a ratio of how many times he ends if not nearly ends a round off an ex gh KD. If not that often, then maybe we are thinking of this the wrong way…
– Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums Beta
Get real people.They are taking the best thing Gief has.Hes vortex.
Not only he’ll be worst, he’ll be shit just like T. Hawk.
Wow… That means the opponent is forced to try to escape every single time Zangief hits him with ex-gh. If he doesn’t, he’s very likely to eat Ultra. If he reversals, block and Ultra. Extended range SPD may mean it eats some backdashes. OS ex greenhand will put the opponent back in the same situation. Opponent can’t just jump because Zangief can keep you grounded…
It’s all dependent on how safe EX GH is on block.
If it’s -1 or -2, then gief will do ok. He’ll be trading “end the round” vortex potential for an easier time getting in.
If it’s -3 or worse (i.e. free throw), then gief will suck. Holding UB will probably kill him.
I never considered that before now but I completely agree that is going to be a big deal.
I can understand the loss of knock-down on EX hand to some extent because it means there is no more vortex shenanigans, so you have to factor in other places where he get opportunities to mess people up.
So in AE:
EX hand = mixup with potential frame advantage
Assuming it’s +1 as per speculation I’ve heard then that’s good. If the rumour about cr lk being faster then that’s helps make this situation a little better for gief, but it’s wild speculation about how good/bad this situation for the time being.
Post SPD = mixup with frame advantage
Landing a successful combo mixup and end with EX green hand will put you into another mixup scenario.
So yeah instead of a vortex he now gets a mixup (crossup splash) potentially into another mixup. SPD leads to mixup and any EX hand combo ender leads to a mixup.
The vortex nerf means he’s not going to steam-roller characters who normally get smashed by it but it’s interesting that he’ll have more opportunity to play mind-games.
Landing an EX hand previously led to a vortex mixup. with the new hand it’ll lead to a faster mixup so you can spend bar to make people guess repeatedly.
With good frame advantage…EX hand combo–>EX hand combo * however many stock you have, with the opportunity to land a command throw with buffed damage with a lot more regularity.
I’m ill right now so I’m maybe not thinking straight but that scenario doesn’t seem like a mega horrible nerf to me
However it will be, im starting to think that its not Capcoms aim to really balance the game out. Its more like they want every char to switch tiers to some extend. So no one can use one char and can be top tier forever.
Cant wait for the AE release and the following information. Gief will stay my Nr 1, wether he will be better or worse.
Maybe it will be possible to punish every single thing the opponent does after Ex GH very hard. Lets say you have U2, you keep him grounded after Ex GH or he eats nearly 500dmg, if he backdashes - l spd (increased range[and dmg] maybe catches all backashes). U2 will be buffed, maybe it will play a bigger role in AE. I already like it and use it against certain chars (Chun, Guile, Blanka, sometimes shotos). With a better hitbox and influence on trajectory…i may even like it a lot more then. I can also see EX GH into EX GH as a good tool. i still think it would be good to have a buff on his chk or long kick to still have enough chances for a knockdown.
I think shoto’s losing the air tatsu out of the corner may be the biggest buff gief got.
I agree. I always viewed the gief/ryu matchup as 5-5, not 6-4 Ryu, and I think the tatsu change may swing the matchup into his favor.
Also, you guys are forgetting some of the most important things he can do after a landed ex gh. Doing nothing will be incredibly strong. If he sits and blocks you can spd, or gh again. Backdash- spd or ex gh. Jumpback-- U2 or gh ultra.
there are a lot of funny assumptions on this thread, the best one is when these gief noobs are going to try to mash out U1 after hitting with the new ex-gh.
Damn, that matchups will definetely be better !
How much does gief need frameadvantage to beat out shoryukens after EX GH hits when going into U2? He needs to get airborne, which he does in what? 1 frame? So basically Gief could very well beat out DP’s, neutral jumps and backjumps with U2 after EX GH. Would be GREAT
swing and a miss…
lol
It is 6 frames to get off the ground to activate U2, but that is with absolute perfect timing. If done one frame too soon you will get EX-RBG; most people delay further.
Pretty much means u2 will be useless after a +1 EX GH unless the OPP is a little late in mashing out a reversal upper…
Sounds like they tweaked the U2 hitbox so it can grab a backdash or jump though; still a guess and a risk.
Better.
That is all.
Definently better, overall. Most of his improvements coming from other characters nerfs(example: Blanka, Seth, damage from Guile/Dhalsim) and moves like roundhouse from Dic. Also, he seems like he will match up well against the stronger AE characters and Yun (maybe Yang as well) I can see him becoming a bit more viable, tourney wise. Of course, still too early to say but I will be quite surprised if he turned out to be more crap then SSF4 Gief.
As said before, no more escape Tatsu = Godlike. Chun and Akuma will still be ass matches probably.