because 6 frame cr.mk is doing nothing to address the real issues Vega has. IDK relly though. Game is weak sauce.
HIs priority is fine as it is, since there is no such thing as priority. Its your lack of spacing combined with the illogical hit boxes of other characters that screw you up. Its clear capcom wants you to play their game and their vision. The room for creativity and viability of unorthodox play style is over, since anything in this game that is unintentional will be phased out. read the comments on youtube and compare the comments to this game and marvel. accesibility and fairness is the new king. what started out as fan service turned into a new cash cow for Capcom.
Why do you think they took damage of cr.mp? So you can use cr.mk more.
Why do you think they took out Cosmic Heel? because they want you to play a poking game and remove the unetintional pressure tool Vega has.
Why do you think they increased the range on Izuna? So that his game relies more on setting up the FBA.
Everything they did to Vega was intentional and with purpose. And that is what pisses me off so much. Im pretty sure they wanted to push AE to a style similar to what Tekken vs SF will be, so that the casual crowd can pick it up and follow through with ease and make big money for capcom. Accessibility and clear easy to follow flowcharts aimed to ease in the casual player, with room for creativity at the top level (as long as it doesn’t interfere with accessibility) will be norm in future fighting games. Welcome to the world of warcraft.
The issues Vega has in AE have nothing to do with CH or cr.MK. He is still the only character with no viable reversal or escape no matter how much meter of any kind he has. He has nothing to make the opponent scared and release pressure. He does very well as long as both characters are standing at footsie range, we all know that. But we also know that if the Yuns, Yangs, Rufus’, Seths… get in one time the match can be over if you don’t guess right. The AE CH would not be a big deal if we could make people scared after they block it, but now they have no reason not to mash on Jab…
AE is more rushdown and mixup oriented than the previous versions and that hurts Vega.
What Vega needs to compete in IMO:
cr.lk having a 3 frame start up and +4 on hit so he can have a viable hitconfirm of a low attack.
st.hk being a viable AA
CH being the way it used to be.
More damage on U2.
General damage output increase.
I used Vega for quite a bit at WNF and the one thing I’m really beginning to notice is that his comeback factor is downright terrible now. He doesn’t have too many ways to safely pressure or open an opponent up. His CH nerf makes it risky to use against many characters (and downright useless against a few) so his kara throw mix ups are ass now… With the loss of CH, his frame traps are below par and he needs meter to really make them count. His reduced damage output becomes more apparent during punishment situations as well…
My point being is that it’s really hard to consistently win w/ Vega now… as wwmajin said above, AE is very offensive orientated and the nerfs just made it that much harder to keep up w/ the rest of the cast. You just can’t get hit anymore, especially against characters like Yun. It’s just awful; I feel like I’m playing Vanilla Vega all over again. =(
how are you approaching Vega know. Im really at a loss right now on how to play, since holding down back and trying to out footsie some body in this game feels like rolling the die to me.
Not trying to be a dick, but you get a poor score on reading comprehension today.
I said the QC team never made taking a look at Vega their priority. As in, they have never sat down and said “let’s actually take a look at the stupid shit he has against him that was either unintentional or unfairly kept in the game when they chose his final build for vanilla over his stronger builds, and let’s fix them”
That means people can’t focus one hit of EX FBA then dash away, people can’t focus one hit of s.roundhouse then backdash (OR FORWARD DASH), and the absolute ass-ness of some of his moves addressed. I totally believe that it’s okay that not ALL moves are useful, as Gief’s bear run or shit like that is just there and doesn’t NEED to have a viable purpose, but when you look at the extreme combination of things going against some of Vega’s moves, such as FBA recovery, SHC EVERYTHING, c.fierce, (POM in vanilla is a prime example), you begin to realize that they grabbed a half-assed build of Claw that was never looked at with scrutiny, and have never since made it their priority to give a good look at him again.
SHC does terrible damage, cannot be comboed into or out of, is not invincible on startup, slow startup, slow recovery, and punishable on hit? Are you serious? They don’t have to change the move into a super useful tool for Vega, but that extreme combination of ass-ness just suggests to me, someone who is in a professional career who has my work thoroughly raped by a QC reviewer on EVERY project, that a close look was never given to him.
Non EX FBA? -31 on block? Are you serious? The damn thing cannot be comboed into or out of, does terrible damage, has vulnerable startup (with quite a HUGE hitbox to hit him out of, and has a difficult throw range to connect and low priority on the strike. Nothing about that move deserves -31 on block where almost anyone can ultra him. -21 on block would still allow half the cast to ultra him for attempting it.
C.fierce? More like C-shit. I understand that they may not have wanted him to have a good anti air by design, or that they didn’t want him to have a great c.fierce, but you could make like three improvements to that move in hit box, startup, and recovery, and it STILL WOULD BE A BELOW AVERAGE NORMAL.
You can have whatever opinion you want, but as someone who gets ass ripped apart for turning in work that is substandard quality at my job, I feel like I know half-assed lazy overlooked hot garbage when I see it.
That’s why I conclude that the QC team never made taking a hard look at Vega a priority.
Pretty much what Pedo said. cr. MK’s buff is fine and all but it really isn’t essential to Vega’s game. Sure you can poke more with it and do interesting high/low game set-ups but it won’t lead to solid damage and the pressure is mediocre.
@wwmajin
CH was an alternative to start pressure like a jump-in but now its not. This is HUGE. I’m not sure what you mean. CH with frame advantage was annoying because options can follow it ie. back dash, tick throw, neutral jump, buffered walk-up ST.
The reason why I wanted cr. MK to be 8 frames again is because the buff was never really needed. Its nice but not needed. Besides, i’m not ambitious enough to think Capcom would give Vega better tools for free ~_^
The Yung/Yang matches would improve with a 400 damage U2 that has 7 frame start up. You’ll have a more viable option.
ya… but saying that it should go back to 8 frames is silly…
cosmic heel nerf was funny! Prolly his best move
ex flying barcelona, cr mp and cr mk damage nerf was funny
ultra start up nerf was funny
the fact he still has ass wake up, mediocre to poor wake up, very weak pressure since he doesn’t have a cross up, the fact that he STILL can’t chain his jabs (The buffed el fuerte by letting him chain his jabs together now in AE) makes it so that nearly ALL vega’s drop a couple combos EVERY match…
and to compensate they gave him a mediocre 400 damange, situational, one frame link combo…
- I don’t play vega, but one of my friends does and I’ve seen first hand how frustrating it can be… especially when he plays me… cause I main abel LOL*
Personally I like fighting Yun a lot better than I did Super SFIV Cammy. Doesn’t feel nearly as helpless to me.
That’s exactly what I mean. Vega can’t fight pressure. He has to prevent rushdown from happening to begin with. In ground situations, Vega is very, very able to keep people off of him with footsies alone. Kicks the shit out of them, even. That’s a given. But the moment they jump at his head, an angle he can’t AA at all, Vega is free.
Vega would be a great character if he just had a decent anti-air. That + his footsies would make him excellent. Not even an anti-pressure move like an SRK, just an AA would be nice because he’d be more able to prevent the rushdown.
I’ve said this from the very beginning give him a reliable AA or reversal or better mobility (backflip, dash, backdash etc). Even tatsu agrees on the mobility part.
He needs to A. deal with someone thats already in his face (i.frames on st) B. deal with jumps in before they get in (reliable AA) C. be able to avoid the situation altogether (better backdash, dash, backflip). It isnt too much to ask for 1 of these things considering every other character has 1 or all of them. Its fucking ridiculous.
I understand capcom were going for an unorthodox playstyle with vega but its painfully obvious by now that it just doesnt work in this type of game. When you also add the fact that he cant apply real pressure, his offence is mainly mediocre pokes and kara throws and therefore 100% reliant on the opponent making a mistake then you can see why hes just not a good character.
His offence is weak because almost all his specials/super/ultra SUCK.
His defence is weak because no decent AA/reversal.
how am I supposed to know you wanted to finish with
look at with priority or
look at vega as a priority or
you get an F for syntax.
Capcom’s logic is that wit your beastly poking tools you shoudn’t ever be in a position where you would need those tools. Either way somebody isn’t doing their job.
Yes, it is huge, I don’t doubt that, but I would willingly trade SSF4 CH for decent I-Frames on ST. He would not need the previous offense starter and can play footsies and poking all day long with a way to get out of pressure. AE CH on block is bad because its shifting the momentum to the opponent, because a simple jap OS sweep will beat everything we can do afterwards (except blocking…) and there is no reason for them to just sit there and block. A viable reversal would add the possibility of using it immediately after they blocked CH.
Its all about options, make them wary/scared and mix it up. Hell, if I play a Vega and I’m using an offense oriented character, I’m happy cause I know I just need to get in one time and go nuts, he has to guess and I have way more options.
And I don’t think your suggested U2 change will help, safe jumping 7f is still easy as hell and at a psychic U2 the 2f faster startup won’t make that much difference. SSF4 U2 only worked consistently against people who didn’t know the matchup…
I approach him the way I always have. Against characters who don’t have a 3 or less frame reversals, I’m not too scared to use CH to punish crouch techs from kara throw range. However, against any character w/ a 3 frame reversal (like Ryu/Gief), I rarely if at all use CH for frame traps (unless I’m desperate for damage/comeback). Against those characters, I just try to whiff punish crouch techs w/ kara throws now but it’s not nearly as reliable. When I have meter, I try to frame trap w/ cr.mk and hit confirm into cr.lp > cr.mp xx ex fba. I almost never use CH point blank against most characters either cuz 3 frame jabs can catch your recovery.
If my CH is blocked, I go for a slow crouch tech to cover both reversal and throw options and/or backdash. No more frame traps =(
But that’s how I’ve adapted to the CH nerf. They obviously didn’t give Vega anything to make up for the times when CH was applicable so I still have to rely on it, regardless of how shitty it is.
My biggest problem (besides his CH nerf) is his damage output atm. His cr.mk > cr.mp xx ex fba does noticeably less damage. So does cl.hp > cr.mp > ex fba. I still haven’t embraced ex rcf > cr.mp > ex fba as a punish though. If only we could combo ex rcf off cr.mk, I’d be so happy lol.
Also, Yun vs Vega is almost hopeless. At least 7 - 3 in Yuns favor. Just as bad as Vanilla Rufus. Much harder than Super Cammy as well. He has too much offensive options. He can get in for free w/ tons of different ways and once he does, you’re gonna get hit. And there is no way Vega can reliably reset the momentum. A good Yang is also bad for Vega (if they know how to use his dive kicks reliably). Not as bad as Yun though. And since Yun is the most used character atm… we’re rarely gonna see any Vega get far in tourneys. Such a shame…
For the first week AE came out, I played almost exclusively against my friends Yun. The ONLY thing I can tell you is that try to take advantage of him not knowing the match up, try to meet him in the air as much as possible because airthrow is your best friend in this match up, also neutral jump MK is decent (but unlike Fei Long it doesn’t hit on both sides… freakin CapCom). Other than that lame out, turtle, downback it as much as possible (up back is ok too if the Yun sucks). Eventually Yun will get in though, and it won’t be pretty. Random reversal your way out because Yuns like to tick command throw, and as an added bonus it’ll beat out normal throws too. But once Yun catches on, Vega is done.
Yea, shitty advice for a shit match up. But so far, I’ve only faced ONE Yun (on XBL) I knew I didn’t have a chance against, every other Yun I’ve faced (on XBL) I’ve had my fighting chance in the match. Eventually I may switch to Rose for this match up because she has better tools against Yun.
And yea, Vega needs a reliable anti-air… and buffs that actually address his problems.
IDK, I found Super Cammy much harder to fight with Vega than Yun. Maybe the Yuns I’m fighting aren’t as good, but yea, I’ve been fighting a good player (AaronS) who used to use Rufus, switched to Cammy in Super and now uses Yun, and I feel like his Yun is much easier to fight than Cammy in Super and Rufus in Vanilla. An even better Yun around here doesn’t feel like a hopeless fight, either. I can take games.
It like, feels like one of the few matches where I can anti-air. s.HK, scarlet terror (to my surprise) and air throws usually take care of dive kicks unless they’re meaty ones. And if I can keep them playing footsies instead of rushdown w/ divekicks, I win.
And IDK about Yang because I only consistently combat 1 solid Yang. He never gives me much trouble. I’ve seen a bunch of Yangs complain about the Vega matchup, even.
I’m willing to concede that maybe I just need to fight better twin players, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the ones I combat. Please don’t throw “oh, fight Daigo and Wong, scrub!” at me. They’re fucking Daigo and Wong, of course 99% of Vegas are going to get destroyed.
Fight Daigo and Wong scrub…amidoinirite?
But no seriously, I kind of agree although I’d most likely get the same thing thrown at me. I’ve said it before but really the only thing I find hard to deal with is Yun’s EX lunge punch being safe on block. Otherwise it hasn’t been that bad.
Yun match is 7-3 definitely. Once he gets in, and he will get in you’re at his mercy.
Hard match ups i’ve always felt that maybe i can learn something from it, i dont work myself up too much because i know i have stuff to learn and vega has various weaknesses but when it comes to the twins its pretty much pointless. It isnt fun at all.
IMO Super Cammy wasn’t that hard, at least it was not Vega specific. I played a lot of Cammy in the end of Super and she could apply pressure to almost every character without much risk, her divekick mixup even beat shoryus. Vegas poking was even better keeping her out than most characters could. But this of course depends on your defense, once Cammy was in she could apply a ton of pressure, but without an overhead and the very small throw range you could escape fairly easy when your late techs/backdashes were on point.
Yun on the other hand has everything, a faster divekick, better pokes (anyone saw the cr.mp / s.mp hitboxes with no hurtbox on 33% of the hitbox?) and a retarded command throw with almost Gief range, where even blocking will get you killed.
The Yun matchup is stupid. As far as I’m concerned, AE Claw is almost as shitty on the tier list as vanilla claw when you weight the Yun encounter rate.
I’m done working so hard on a character just to face a train of 7-3’s. I don’t think Capcom has taken a very close and objective look at Claw.
I don’t play street fighter much these days due to factors in my life (recently married, lots of travel with work, lots of hours at work, etc.) but when I do get more time to play street fighter, my time will be invested in Viper, not Claw. I will still play Claw casually, but I’m not wasting my training mode hours on him.