Playing against Mago and Sako at BeatByContest really changed my point of view. CH really IS useless against top players with good reactions, they don’t fall for the pseudo mixup of kara and CH. They just straight up reversal the startup / active frames or block it, and you’re in close range where you really don’t wanna be, the pseudo pressure after + on a well spaced CH doesn’t help.
Most of the time I got raped when trying a CH, but I did very well with just poking and zoning, so well, that I took a match from Mago…
I have not played AE edition but i think people need to experiment more U1 is very powerful if you have got reaction. it act the same way as U2 i will say better in IMO due to the launcher but it’s character specific.
1 - Insulting people just because they are girls was and is out of line here.
2 - If you speak to your girlfriend use MSN or at the very least private messaging, this is a fighting game community forum not a blind dating wall/chat.
You’ve been repeateadly out of line everybody acted like it was nothing. That was assuming you were clever enough to aknowledge and correct the steering by yourslef. It is about time you take some measures to put an end to it. or we will have to act against it.
I regret that I have to write such an unpleasant message but I hope that message is going to be clear enough, for that is the last warning you get from me.
So WWmajin, youre doing it wrong. You have to be so clever with it. which was why i was so pissed of when they said they nerfed Cosmic Heel to shit dom. Its hard to set up, the amount of thought that has to go into it, the full commitment you have to take everytime you do it, and the huge risk you take every time you do it. Cosmic Heel brain dead? GTFO here with that wanna be cool kid shit and play somebody that knows how to dealt with the move. (not aimed at you just those who say Cosmic Heel is brain dead)
and the drama in this thread hilarious, keep it up.
Im not even going to start with this shit. Get back to me when you play anybody that decides to learn WTF to do against that move and then get back to me. Doesn’t have to be god, just somebody who gets tired of losing and decides to learn. safe doesn’t mean shit when the only thing you can do is block.
And read WWmajin post while youre at it. Maybe then you’d understand what is going on
though +3 and -2 means the same in terms of being “safe” in SFIV for vega since he needs +4 for a TrueBlockString and people (generally) need that you reach -3 for a guaranteed punish.
It is not the same to end up with momentum and having a mixup opportunity and being point blank with the other guy getting a mixup opportunity of his own.
Besides -2 is enough for a untechable reversal safe tick command grab which is very very bad…against say… zangief and the likes.
What I d like to know more about is M.RCF does it combo after some medium normals on crocuhed people or on standing people.
i asked when was the last time i stuck my tongue down someones throat. that is not an insult. out of line… maybe. maybe. depending on you look at it. …not an insult however
is ajunta a mod? i dont like white knights i must tell you and you seem to be a pearly white one sir
or maybe just a hypocrite?
i dont think anything has changed in that regard. no frame data has been altered other than what capcom noted. seth killian was bullshitting (yet again) when he said to everyone there was more to find out on our own
ill try some things while im at the arcade today but i dont think mprcf is going to combo into anything other than counter hits or jump ins
Hahaha yes! Mickey D he’s currently recovering in the hospital right now on antibiotics but yeah i’ll give him a heads up I was in that video talking shit about markman because I can and markman finds it hilarious thanks for the response back I have’nt been on this forums at all hahaha
well if nothing changed then it already comboes on crouching people after cls.mk and cls.mp, but if it comboed after cr.mk we dd get some nice buff, and if comboed after cr.mk on standing people that would be the cherry on the cake.
You know, maybe I’m doing it wrong but I really relied on the kara, CH, poke “mixup” until then and I got it to work against everyone before, very good and great players… CH ST was my main way to deal damage, but it was useless against these top players, their knowledge of the game, reactions and the ability to read you like a book is amazing.
The thing is, really good Vegas are very rare, I think a lot of our wins boil down to the other player not knowing every facette of the match up and even if they do, their reactions and the ability to read what your going to do is not top level.
Every CH is a gamble, you may be save from reversals now, but you’re left at close range, and thats bad for Vega, his close normals are slow, have no frame advantage and his block strings suck. I don’t wanna be at close range, I wanna poke from a somewhat safe distance, where most chars are no thread and pressure with the walkspeed. And in AE, you can still space CH well and you’re still safe, the pressure afterwards sucked anyways, yeah, you should not do it against Zangief, but why you wanna be close to him in the first place?
So like I said, these sets really changed my point of view. I still don’t know why the nerf is necessary, but I think the 6f cr.MK will be more helpfull than the +frames on CH.
The sad thing is that capcom for some reason thinks we have to choose between those things, when characters like Akuma go virtually untouched as far as power.
id go further into it but a moderator happened to coincidentally pass by this thread and totally wasnt called here by any white knighting but now i must give it a rest
eh
ae removed any doubt that capcom wanted the players to play their own way. capcom wants us to play capcoms way, or ono’s way to be more precise. that’s what it comes down to. unfortunately ono has proven himself to be rather inept
This is pretty much how I’ve been feeling lately with it. You have options at the end of CH, but it’s so easy to get screwed over.
You can’t go into close normals because, while you’re at +3, his cr.jab or anything don’t have 3 frame startup, so if you go for a cr.jab, you leave yourself open to be thrown, which is pretty much how it’ll end up because it seems everyone and their mother know that this is the common thing that happens after CH.
You go for throw at the end of CH, if it’s against someone with an invul reversal, hell even something 4 frame (correct me if I’m wrong if it’s 5 frame or whatever) like flashkick beats a throw, you’ll eat it.
You go for neutral jump, some character have fast startup on their jabs that pin you to the ground so you can’t even jump, they even have OS at their disposal with some characters.
You go for backdash, you might run into an option select.
So all in all, throwing CH into a block is already kinda bad, just some people don’t see it. You DO have options, but then you also have a lot of risk to go with it. With cr.MK now being a stronger poking tool, it’ll probably make landing CH as a hit rather than into a block easier, IMO.
Vega’s always been a fair bit of risk with little reward, but we still kept on with him. I haven’t played AE yet, but I’m convinced that if I could sit through vanilla and get in wins, I can sit through this. Adaptation is an important part of playing Vega, heck, playing anyone really.
That’s not true, throws activate on the 3rd frame, so you will beat throws when you’re at least +2 (I don’t know the outcome, if the throws and the attacks first active frame overlap, I suppose the attack wins?). There’s always the CH OS Tech, but if the opponent doesn’t throw or reversal, you’re at a disadvantage again.
TBH, I think Vega is NO high risk character, you have to stay mid range, apply moderate pressure with pokes, walkspeed and kara. At this range, even the Cammy and Rufus matchup are in Vegas favor. The random knockdown just sends Vega to hell, but thats why your reactions always have to be on point and you’ll never ever wanna stay at close range, so why even use CH in these matchups except for punishes?
Like I said before, I still don’t know why the nerf was necessary, but it’s really not that bad, I’m more excited about the cr.MK.
He has some risk to him. Not necessarily high, but there IS some. Can’t rely deny that.
I always figured that throw wins over attacks, but then I’m going off my recent play experience where I’m even getting thrown at the end of a Max Range CH when I’m trying to normal throw myself. Maybe it’s just that mindset haha. The attack probably will win, I figured though that since Vega’s cr.lp startup is 4 frames as opposed to 3 then it would make a difference.
I think my head’s already trying to adapt for the change. I haven’t been using CH so much and really been focusing on cr.MK. I already like cr.mk now, so I’ll probably love it in AE.
Still agree though that the nerf was unnecessary. Don’t know why, if they absolutely had to nerf it, why it couldn’t just be to +2. Makes it a TINY bit tighter to get in throws at the end but then your opponent isn’t whining about “Wah wah +3” which is where I imagine the reason for the nerf came from. Because of whiners who can’t adapt to it and keep getting thrown and NEVER learn.
To be fair Vega is always at the advantage from mid range. I have played AE a few times and I’m not at all deterred from using Vega. Maybe that’s the fanboy in me, but really you just have to be on point with your zoning game. You do not want to be close to people anymore and I found myself fishing for cr.mk a whole lot more than I ever have. I have not played much but I can see some potential with a little game between cr.mk and CH whiff punishes.
But for the record, I still like Super Vega better. No biggy though.
