Vega still fine, if not better. /sarcasm
its actually fucking gay. I abuse that move so much.
Its 5-5 in Super. With smart st.mp use Fei cant abuse HK Chicken Wing, which is a free ticket to pressure you all day long. And with well placed pokes and Cosmic Heel pressure Fei cant riks throwing Rekkas because he want to pressure you.
If he is doing it a lot(Rekkas), it means you aren’t attacking enough. And being passive.
right now in super cr.mk loses to rekkas badly because of hit box issues. Probably the same in AE. Which if so, imo Fei is a bad match up in AE because of the loss of real offensive options. Sowith no real threat Fei is now inclined to throw more Rekkas now because the reward now outweights the risk, as opposed to Super, where its really risky, but really rewarding.
those Vega’s have no offensive game.
It’s not offline I have a problem 
Rekkas are nigh unpunishable as far as online is concerned. I don’t care for it too much but lately it’s my only form of practice.
If I go on the offensive I tend to eat a shienkyaku to the chin because mashers gonna mash.
The Shoto & Gief matchups will definitly become much harder, especially Ken, who just got buffed so hard for no reason…
The rest of the cast can probably played with normal CH use, gotta abuse the OS tech very hard… and hope they go for the throw for the spacing reset.
But the nerf still makes no sense at all.
why use some oscure useless normal like st. mp when you can just crouch under fei’s chicken wing with c. mp or c. mk at all times then get an actual, real man’s punish
edit: also you can actually punish every single rekka every time regardless of how well fei spaces it. so no, c. mk losing to rekka’s isn’t a big deal at all, because fei long shouldn’t be throwing rekkas liberally in the first place. vega wins the footsie battle severely and fei’s best pressure moves are free punishes (BIG time for vega). the only downside is it’s really ahrd to safe jump him casue he gets up fast, and fei can do big damage off of tenshin.
honestly fei’s only option is getting in vega’s face and staying there. j. mk and j. mp are the most trouble some moves to deal with. tenshin mixups are the most scary thing, but if you play a solid footsie game it’s really easy to win the match. totally even match, also consider the fact that Fei’s HK chicken wing is no longer invincible. the most significant change in the MU is Fei’s EX Rekkas being safe on block, which actually makes a lot of sense, and you can expect fei to use those. however, no invincible HK chicken wing, and less meter to use for FADCing shienkyaku… looks pretty good for both sides
it’ll probably be an even 5-5 matchup like it is now, and that probably has a lot to do with vega’s tier placing atm
how badly vega loses to yun and yang, we’ll see. But honestly at this rate it looks like Vega’s primary enemy is Makoto. that match is gonna be rough now, but again, she’s so free on wakeup. Honestly i’d rather be vega on my back knocked down than makoto and some other characters. her backdash is NUTS though, i mean seriously. it’s vega’s speed but considerably more distance. playing smart footsies, reacting to the dash and defending against tsurugi will be a challenge. not to mention she does great damage and stun.
Consistency. Cr.mk does not go under chicken wing because Vega’s hit box stays the same. In the event that id does, it means that HK Chicken Wing was misplaced and flyed right over you. Cr.mp does go under, however you only have two frames to do so, but its unreliable, and if you mistime it that = hurt. But honestly, if you are going to do cr.mp might as well do Scarlett Terror instead. Less damage, but you build more meter, more stun, set up the same wake options, and is more consistent.
FYI st.mp is not useless, its actually a very good footsie normal, because of how it works. If it had more range it would easily outclass cr.mp.
of COURSE hk chicken wing was misplaced, that’s the entire point
at c. mp range, if you’re crouching, HK chicken wing will always go over you
at HK Chicken wing max range, why aren’t you just reacting to it and neutral juming anyways? It’s so easily countered. it’s a tool that fei long does not have the liberty of abusing
Other characters have a hard time because they CAN’T crouch under it, like abel
and come on, you pulled “two frames” out of your ass. it’s more like 15, the window is absurdly huge. it’s so easy
you can whiff a move to get under it, then just jump in on his ass for free while he recovers
like i said, it’s SO easy. spend 5 minutes in training mode
no, st. mp would never outclass c. mp, because it doesn’t cancel, and it doesn’t have more range so that’s not really what we’re worried about, is it
it’s a situational normal against rufus. that’s the only time i’ve ever thought of using it
for the record, it’s easy to crouch under both mk and HK chicken wing. it’s not “2 frames”, that shit is made up. it’s a huge window, in fact i’m not even sure you have to even whiff a normal, they might just go over top of you at poke range always. and agian… if you’re at poke range and they’re going over top of you, great. if you’re at max range, then react to it and do what you want.
LK chicken wing is -4 and you can’t crouch under it, free scarlet terror anyways
every rekka is at least -4 and can’t be spaced outside range of c. mp, so free ex fba combo there
it’s a totally even matchup, don’t just make shit up to try and prove me wrong, or say, “it’s good, because of how it works”. Way to prove your point
It’s 2 frame active move. in those active frames is when Vega crouches the most. Yeah maybe it is easy, but I wouldn’t know because st.mp is more practical because you should rarely be given the chance to execute the scenario you described.
And st.mp would be better, with more range. You don’t extend your hit box, the active hit box extends .5-1 training mode squares beyond your hit box. Great tool for pressuring opponents who jump back or to out poke moves that move characters forward like Ryu’s Solar Plexus Strike, Fei’s Chicken Wing, Guile’s fst.mk, Vega’s Cosmic Heel, Sagat’s Tiger Knee, etc. Add the extra range and its suddenly easier to keep people out with st.mp as well. As opposed to cr.mp which is good for keeping people out, pushing them away/defending. Its not a good pressure tool when used raw, it has to be used in combination with other moves to give it its offensive value. Sure you can cancel out of it, but you need to be holding on to a charge. We all know when you should be holding on to a charge, and footsies is not one of those situations.
But I know, why you really dont like it, it does not fit your style and you dont have a practical use for it, range is lacking, slow, non-cancalble, etc. I dont need to prove my point when the move has been discussed and mentioned several times in match up/question thread. Its implied that if your on this website discussing character X you should know your character normals.
And who does LK or MK Chicken Wing? Nobody. HK and EX Chicken Wing outclass the other two by miles. They are done of a cancel, when you are pressuring with pokes, when they try and get in and they know you are not holding charge. Your example is under the pretense that you where holding down back.
No one should be doing it at a range where you can crouch under it, unless they are going for a cross up Chicken Wing. Plus Fei should be hit conforming into his Rekka’s. And if it was as easy to punish Rekka pressure you’d see it more often in high level matches, in which case it isnt the happening as much as it should. No one should be doing the second Rekka when the first was blocked unless they know you like to push buttons.
my 2 cent. the only character i have ever found cr.fp useful against it stuff fei long chicken wing
lol, it’s like you try to prove me wrong, and then halfway through you’re like “well i’m talking about something different”, and then it’s like, well why’d you try to prove me wrong in the first place?
fei long cancelling chicken wings off of up close normals is the least of my worries
why doesn’t he just press the advantage and frame trap me when given the chance, if he’s up in my face spamming normals into some safe string, whatever, he’s not actually accomplishing anything
for the record, you’re assuming that the vega player already fucked up and let fei long in, and i’m assuming that vega has the advantage, which from the beginning of every round is vega’s, considering the round doesn’t start with fei long at +10 right in front of you
basically all you ended up saying is “yeah fei long pressures with chicken wing up close effectively and so you should use st. mp” i’m 90% sure that doesn’t work because HK chicken wing (since you said it’s the only useful one) has huge invincibility and you’d just get run over using st. mp anyways
in that case you either jump out or block, you’re already fucked anyways. why didn’t you just zone his bitch ass
as a matter of fact,
cr.HP and focus bait do wonder too against Heavy chicken wing and yes st.mp does the trick too at the proper range. Cancel ability in this case is not really a factor since you ll cause a reset no matter what normal you use and a CH on reaction is irrealistic.
jump up and then land on his face can work too but I d say it s more psychic , if you jump on reaction you’ll land on a block most probably. if you read him and guessed you lay waste on him though.
in this very case in my humble opinion cr.HP is a better choice than fst.mp it starts faster does more damage and the block parameter is not part of equation. The safest is to focus armor but there is no guaranty for more than 60 damage and you have a gray damage debt pending.
If you are closer though you need to psychic it , in which case cr.HP is an absolute no go, focus gets broken, so i guess it is not bad to alternate jump up ( I don’t see fei doing something easy to punish it at that range) and fst.mp which is safer on whiff. Don’t forget too that fst/cls.LK works extremely well in that case and is even safer on whiff but does shit for damage, in case of a trade you basicaly have it even.
so I think you both have valid approaches.
If you are even closer fei long should not use his heavy chicken wing or he’ll fly over you and that is a free cosmic heel in his back. he certainly wont make it a habit.
You can crouch under him and get jump ins or c. Mp for free. if for some reason he throws it out at max ill neutral jump. If he does it out of a string I’m forced to block or jump out anyways. I don’t really see what the point is of using a normal to stuff when you cab just dodge it entirely and get wayyy better punishes.
Out of a blockstring yes this is a no brainer and there is no time to react anyway, only the light one is punishable on block though, and might cross up, and the best realistic punish you can get from a block is around 260 (unless you go for a RCF FADC, or the new stuff in AE). Now if you went for the twitch jump out you can lay a big combo on him.
But at max range a neutral jump on reaction may lands on a block or a flame kick, it ll only work if the guy panics and hugs db, on the paper he has about -3/+5 frames to do whatever he likes on completion before you can hit ground with an early nj normal, plus he can cross under and punish your backside landing if he uses the longer and faster EX version he’ll reset you, scoring a knockdown towering on you with +15 frame adv. I think that max range jump up is unpractical even if the ideal reward is appealing.
At max range the most reliable and easiest is H.ST if you have a charge, fst.LK if you don’t, somehow I find that though cr.HP is a bit more risky it also yields better reward when you don’t have a charge, all three stuff heavy medium and EX version pretty much the same with a lot of leeway in range and a lot of time to react and they don’t cost meter. Cosmic heel works well against heavy version but is unpractical against EX.
Last if you crouch under any version of rekkyaku you nerver get a free jump in, you get a slide if you want a cr.MP xx FBA and if your timing and distance evaluation is good a backside cosmic heel combo , but certainly not a jump in.
-paragraph 1 talks about the supposed number I pulled out of my ass when ducking with cr.mp.
-paragraph 2 talks about st.mk and why if given the range buff would out class cr.mp
-paragraph 3 talks about that I shouldn’t have to explain a move
-paragraph 4 talks about Chicken Wing usage
-paragraph 5 talks about spacing Chicken Wing and the difficultness of trying to punish a LP.Rekka
I don’t see where you got “this and then that, and then why?”
you cant always jump out, and you cant always cr.mp under it. you can st.mp every time, which is my point. Ajunta covered the details.
The only time you get rand over using st.mp is when he is your face and does HK Chicken Wing and you whiffed it expecting something else. I
You cant zone Fei forever. Its so easy for Fei to get in. Just by zoning him with normals you get the risk of getting countered hit with Rekka or him catching you on recovery of a move where you cant do anything but block. Usually the latter.
goddamn , just came back from the arc.
when yuns get better we’re all going to need to learn how to play sagat/gief.
seriously.
st.mp and st.hk are godsends in this matchup , along with nj.mk and air throw.
I like vega more in this for some reason.
yep I played marns yun when he came to the arcade i go to and s.hk was the only thing keeping me alive, that and backdashing dive kicks when safe on block
also used ultra 1 cause it can punish dive kicks
I didn’t read through all the wall of text but I just want to say Vega vs Fei seems fairly even IMO.
Not at all. Yun isn’t nearly as hard as [Super] Cammy or [Vanilla/Super] Rufus. He’s really weak on defense/wake up. Low health also means he can’t guess wrong. On top of that, his ground game sucks. If it wasn’t for his GJ, I’d say the match up would be fairly even.
It’s all about how well you control space at mid range and how much you make each knockdown count. Frame traps, kara throw/CH mix ups, etc are all good ways to open him up once you get the knockdown (especially in the corner). You can’t play run away/turtle either. Yun can get in pretty easily with EX lunge punch… not to mention, if you turtle, he can sit back and just gain meter with palm (On side note: Don’t rely on EX FBA to punish whiffed palms… you’ll probably end up getting beat clean. And Yun can punish blocked wall dives pretty damn well should you fuck up in said situation).
On defense, you can’t get impatient. Just crouch tech intelligently and find openings to use jb.hp/air throw/st.hk to knock him out of the air. His dive kicks suck compared to Rufus or [Super] Cammy due to having a shitty hitbox and a height restriction. Also, Yun should NEVER be able to out poke Vega, so if they decide to play a ground game against you, then it should be free.
St.HK is a good move to use to challenge his dive kicks at mid range. It’s also smart to NJ when in range of a jump in/dive kick in order to keep Yun in check. If he tries to go for a jump in/dive kick, you can air to air or air throw. If feel the best position for Vega is to challenge Yun at mid range. Not much Yun can do but either go for a jump in, dive kick, or EX lunge punch at that range. If you have good reactions and a good footsie game, you should be fine.
IMO, the match up looks like it would be 6 - 4 Yun. It all comes down to who gets the first knockdown. The reason I think Yun wins is because, even though his wake up sucks, Vega’s sucks more. And Yun can end the round off one knockdown as opposed to Vega simply because he has more ways to bully Vega on his wake up. And cuz GJ is gay.
Thanks kouryuu , that was some good shit.
I just want to add that u1 and ex shc beat palm spam since it counts as a projectile. However , that’s a double-edged sword because he can bait with lp palm , and also , if you do it late it would be a free ultra/punish/genei jin.
You really don’t throw ex SHC out there willy nilly anyway because it’s THAT punishable x_x, probably better off finding a much safer punish for it. Vega probably has one, it’s just it AE hasn’t really had much time to test out everything.
U1 is kinda a bit of an exception because I notice it catches people out a lot better than EX SHC does when pulled out of one’s ass randomly (I know this well, people evidently don’t like blocking mid-screen away on wakeup)
With Yun in general, I considered probably treating him a little like Rufus because of the divekicks. I’m just theory fighting, but he doesn’t look majorly difficult to deal with unless, as Koryuu said, knocks you down (but isn’t this just the case with most characters? Don’t get knocked down. Because Vega only really has two wakeup options, backdash or block).
Early morning ramblings and before I trail off I’m going to stop here yawn Kinda need to make a trip to London though to play at some point.
I’ve never felt overwhelmed by the Fei mu. Definitely not as lopsided as some of Fei’s other mus.