Squash the beef yo!
Instead of arguing about CH lets find way to use it to our advantage in AE.
We need to get back on track.
Also everyone needs to start practicing ex. Rcf mix ups which I think its gonna be vital to our game IMO.
Fadc U1 after it is looking real nice.
-Thai Vega-
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
I’m with that guy above me. I mean…name calling and complaining won’t help you slash people with your claw.
Also, I can’t believe that someone accused Joz of blaming himself and not the character, saying this was the wrong attitude, if I understood that correctly. Like…this is the perfect attitude to have. If you really believe Vega is just that bad, you might want to find another character. Honestly, the amount of bitching going on is amazing.
When you lose, the person who is at fault is you. Not the character, not frame data, you. If you think your character is bad, there are 36 more to chose from. Take your pick.
Things I’d like to work into my game are cross up FBA’s, using cr. mk new functionality as a frame trap, and perhaps making the switch back to Ultra 1. I’m thinking Ultra 1 for a couple of reasons, the main one being that when I panic when I’m getting rushed down, I just throw 2 out there and eat a big punish. On the other hand, without 2, people can rush you without mercy.
I’m also looking into the potential of trade -> ultra. EX-FBA used as a tool against long jump ins that the ultra wouldn’t catch. Will require further testing.
Also, the Bison pushback might be a big buff in our favour. Played a Bison today, and managed to get out of the corner much easier than normal. I’m not sure if this was once off thing, will monitor.
The damage nerfs on 'rog will be a big bonus for us. He’s much more manageable.
Finally played a really good Yun today. Dive kick pressure is as bad as expected. Realised that Yang and Yun might be more problematic than I had hoped when my SC kept getting beaten clean.
Everyone in this forum pretty much knows that Makoto is the BEST vega player in the world…and everyone here pretty much respects him and gives him props for his playstyle.
But then i hear random stuff about cosmic heel not being that good…okay??? How does that make any sense?
Alot of people here must be blind when they watch Makoto’s videos because alot of his gameplay is based on 50/50 mixups with COSMIC HEEL. Go watch makoto vs uryo to see examples of it.
It’s a good move, no need to downplay that. I dont know how badly they nerfed it, but from the videos i’ve seen…it doesnt seem THAT bad.
You can still do 50/50 mixups and use it pretty much the same way as before…just not as safe. But then again, in super, its only safe depending on the spacing but you cant get it perfect everytime anyways so in my eyes, it doesnt change much for me. It’s either i hit or i get hit afterwards because i spaced it poorly. But either way, it happens and is going to happen…so yeah not that much different for me.
Like i said before, c.mk is a good buff, i’ve always hated how slow it was since vanilla since i used to use that move alot in previous games like cvs2.
Overall, i cant say that vega has been buffed or a nerfed…just different. On the tier list i dont think he’d go up or down to be honest.
I misunderstand why you keep stating CH is mediocre. I mean, I know you don’t use it much when you play but to say that it’s mediocre just makes you come off very ignorant.
It’s been proven time and again that it is one of his best moves (arguable his best move) in his arsenal. Some one as good as you should be able to watch match videos of high level play from Japanese Claws and understand the significance of CH and how good it can be as a frame trap/pressure tool.
Cosmic heel was far from mediocre dude. It was downright amazing and one of the reasons why Vega was still able to hang with the rest of the cast back in Vanilla.
I’m still surprised you guys are still arguing about CH. As far as AE goes, the move sucks, just like Vega. For all the dedicated Vega mains, best talk about the changes and how you guys can make this new [nerfed] Vega work.
It’s good in Super, but AE it doesn’t seem AS good is pretty much what was being poked at initially.
and I’d say he’s got more overall buffs than nerfs. So you have to change your game? So what, you’d be a pretty bad Vega if you weren’t good at adaptation.
Sagat’s extra frame on Low Tiger Shot, just makes it seem just as good. Point being, no its not. It is no where near close as being just as good becuase he lost so many traps set ups. Imagine Bison Being -1 for Scissor Kicks, the move wouldnt be near as good or used.
CH is not mediocre in its usefullness but it should be sparingly used. The way I see it is that Vega has a new sword that is EX RCF that has followups and in exchange he has to give up his better sword that is CH with frame advantage. Is it a good replacement? Hell no. Joz thinks it is but hes entitled to his own opinion. Can you still use CH game? Yes, but the deeper ones now can be punished opposed to being a mind game set up. The reason why it is not good now is because the trade offs. You get a CH in along with ST. 240 damage. YAY! You miss and it wasn’t tip point…SRK–>FADC–>ULtra Hmmmm…Who gets the better deal?
Anyway… Now with Extra SPD range and a reset on EX Greenfist…Gief and Claw matchup will be so gay it’ll be painful to even think about it… You can’t poke from any range and expect to be somewhat safe. I’m also betting st HK can be reversaled with SPD from certain ranges. So basically its come down to poke and run only with no exageration.
Exacta. Especially as it is now in AE. While the change isn’t so bad if you’re already careful with it. You’re going to get hurt if you misjudge it even once, it’s probably the one thing people are really going to look out for vs Vega now.
I was worried about this too or even st.MK, if st.MK can also get reversaled that matchup is going to tilt so far in Zangief’s favour it’ll be a little daunting you just lost all of your keep away safe moves essentially if he can do that.
People will look out for the same thing like in SF4 and SSF4: get an (untechable) knockdown and then go fn crazy, still nothing Vega can do about it but guessing and thats an unfavorable guess…
People could look out for it in SFIV/SSFIV but provided you’re doing it right, it’s not exactly the easiest of punishes. However now with AE, it’s easily punishable so people will be more inclined to push buttons whereas before you had a very solid guessing game off a blocked one, now it’s more "Try and save my own ass and not get punished for it."
Granted in AE if you do it at max range it’s apparently…0? -1? I’ve heard different numbers so far for it so it’s not like before where even mid range you were pretty safe still.
I don’t know, I’m rambling trying to spit my words out of what I’m trying to get across.
LOL at this thread in retrospect. It should just die. You either get Cosmic Heel, or you dont. And its obvious who gets it and who doesnt.
Looool.
Moving on from that epic post, I’ve been put off posting/reading the Juri forums because of how much bitching and moaning there is, now we’re getting it here. Really, people need to stop crying about shit cause it’s getting mad old. I would try to give my thoughts on Cosmic Heel and some of the other changes but from reading this thread I’m convinced there’s no point now. I know I’m still gonna be playing Vega regardless and I gotta say props to all the other people in this thread trying to actually discuss things properly and share positive ideas etc. Maybe I’ll try and contribute when all this dies down a bit.
I will say one thing though, anyone heard of watched a Japanese Vega player by the name of GENIUS K127? His style with Vega seems to revolve less around Cosmic Heel and more around RCF/CR MP/Kara Throw. I can definitely see his style being a lot more effective in AE.
Someone should test if Vega’s super was buffed in AE. It would be nice if it was similar to bhc and hit on the way up.
I have no opinions about the CH or anything els in this matter because i don’t go to any tournaments.
But i will say how will most people move forward without discussing their problems with certain things.
I believe it’s best to come out here on any other character thread and talk about your problems about such and such you have with your character instead of just keeping it in the dark.
Yes it’s good to keep it positive but it can’t always be like that… we need to keep the balance.
Like therapy i think lol discuss problems and by doing that you learn to cope with things…i think.
Cosmic heel isn’t that good. 
Of course, I completely agree with you. Too bad recently in this thread the majority of people have just been complaining about those problems and making no real effort to find solutions to them. There’s a big difference between discussing a problem and straight up whining about it.
This thread is all over the place. 
Anyway, as someone who makes major use of CH, the nerf is extremely disappointing. Is it end of the world like some in here are making it out to be? No. But it also isn’t “mediocre” or w/e the people on the other side of the argument claim. Just gonna have to work around it and hope that his buffs, combined with some of the stronger characters nerfs, lead to good results.
That said, I do have a major issue with how Capcom seems to be balancing in general. And CH nerf seems to be a result of it. Cap. seems intent on doing their best to balance a character to a vision of how they think that character should be played. Excuse the poor analogy, but it’s like they want each character to almost be the equivalent of a different gun in an FPS. If you don’t like this style of gun then move on to a different one. Personally, I find making characters that black/white to be boring. Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Vega should excel as a rushdown monster and still have his excellent pokes/spacing tools. But having something like CH, which has good horizontal range, mix-up potential, good damage options on hit, etc…, while not being a completely flawless move, gave him a tool that allowed you to somewhat compliment his standard game and at least give your opponent something to think about. And when you consider his mediocre AA, lack of ultra setups (Less now!), trouble vs. pressure, etc…, having CH in its current form felt more like us getting thrown a bone as opposed to a tool that screamed for a nerf. It’s troubling because there is a lot I like about Vega including his mobility and mix-ups/shenanigans. But now, with AE, it seems like I won’t just be fighting against my opponent but also against Capcom’s view on how the character should be played.
All that said, I still can’t wait to play AE Vega and work on things! :wgrin:
**
**LOL at you, and Rugulitarian troll status. Genius K127 good? He is absolute garbage. His style is all down back and cr.mp. He is the god of XBL Vega scrub tactics. I know people who use Vega and they are so much better than him.
this thread really is new levels of garbage now.
@AZ Greg
Capcom is doing the same thing to Vega as to what they did to Gen.
Wait a min my brain just farted something.
Im fully realizing now about CH. I realize that it’s still the same move before it’s just now we get punished on block for it that’s it.
The infamous pressure tool for Vega.
The problem here is that once we use CH and it’s blocked we get punished by something, saying that im going to bring c.mk into this.
Here we have a leaping forward kick great for punishing moves and sometimes safe with big dmg followed with a ST.
and also we have a good/quick hit confirming attack the c.mk mostly followed with a EX FBA or roll or ST
(Not implying this to anyone just speculating)
Most of us here now are now kinda irritated because CH is forcing us to now just use it more than ever as a punishing move instead of just throwing it out there hoping the opponent blocks it or don’t block it.big reward when connected followed with a ST/Small reward throw or jb.Hp
Irritated because Capcom took our small reward away the won’t let us have it both ways for CH
Capcom made c.mk quicker for us like a good Ryu c.mk i believe for a different way of us using a mid/small reward a tick throw or a followed c.mp xx roll with a possibility into making it into a big reward by FADC for bigger dmg. (Tatsu having much more easier time with the FADCing/Joz too being a good user of the FADCing too)
c.mk is not replacing CH for a much better punishing move but c.mk is replacing CH a much safer/quicker move with just a good set of options just like CH i believe.
So i guess im saying leave CH > ST/(on block…well used to be)throw/ to the punishing while leaving the walk forward c.mk(tick throw) > c.mp xx roll to the i guess not sure i can punish you but i can use this to still be safe/or get good dmg on you attack following to diff stuff
To be very truthful rite now i don’t even know what im talking about im just blabbering im completely lost. I don’t even know if this make any sense.
To clarify, since dude like shadow love to troll the board all the time then hate on me when I actually post
(That’s your cue dude, look for jozhear in the side bar and tell us why I’m stupid)
I believe cosmic heel is not Vegas best tool. I believe c. Mp followed by walk speed is. Let me put it this way, I feel like ch is only reliable at beating cr techs and therefore is situational. As far as footsies goes I stated 14 frame start up limits applications. Theoretically despite ch whiffing on crouchers in certain scenarios and in certain distances its entirely possible to make every gamble with ch like you would with c. Mp and get more damage and more results. Realistically though barring heavy whiff moves its impossible to react to a whiff and punish every time with ch right? Ppl still can play footsies against Vega. It’s not like Vega wins every footsie battle anyways, and even if he takes the gambles to win the ground game, ppl still have a choice to jump in. To me that is Vegas biggest battle. Not getting in and blowing up cr. Tech.
Like I said I’m not worried about forcing ppl to tech to avoid 120 damage. What are they doing to avoid getting hit by cosmic heel? Sweeping me, jumping back, backing up… why do you think c.mk got that buff? To replace ch? No, its to emphasize an aspect of Vegas gameplan that currently is a pretty big hurdle. Walking back forces Vega to walk forward unprotected to kara throw and they just block ch. So just c. Mk then right? Sure, but then what makes cosmic heel so good…? Seriously, ppl can just neutral jump to avoid both ch and throw. Whatever frame traps you get don’t mean anything since it whiff, and by either kara throwing or using ch you just create huge risks for yourself. Makes no sense to me that ppl play against Vega and hence lose to him in an effort to avoid one of his weakest damage options.
To me, ppl underestimate what can be attributed as Vegas lame gameplay. C. mp with some mk and Lk and Lp and air throw. Guile has sonic booms that force you to jump… but does he have a sonic boom that comes out in 4 frames at a huge distance and is safe from that range? Yes Vega can play a strong offensive game with ch , but it hardly contributes to a defensive game that I feel is totally there.
For the record, I don’t believe ch is bad at what it does. Bad footsie move? No, limited. Big start up. Good option against cr. Tech? The best. The move Vega relies on and wins with? Not for me. For makoto? Power to him, but I believe so much is presupposed when two Japanese players play each other that all the dumb shit (like jumping) I spend all my time shutting down just isn’t a factor against an opponent like makoto who I’m sure is better at that than I am anyways, and ppl playing him know it. Make sense? I’m only speaking my mind, and I got irritated cause whenever I state my case someone says ‘daigo’. Well according to bottom tier player shadow its impossible for me to get better (despite me losing against air and makoto presumably bodying him). Fact is, not only did I not ch, I didn’t air grab or scarlet terror either. I fucked up royally.
Honestly, I probably use ch as much as you guys do, but according to what I read I don’t rely on it or set near as much store in it as you guys. I can live with the nerf. Besides, ch does all the things now it did before. only now you’re taking a bigger chance when you mix someone up. Big deal, really. I don’t think those post ch frame traps are solid at all, they’re character specific. its still an amazing punish tool and I’m all for that. If it has the same range that’s all good with me.
Just before you tell me I’m ignorant or stupid, remember that its just the internet, and whatever playstyle I advocate allows me to beat people who actually play the game seriously. Not DAIGO, clearly, but whoever else I have beaten.
Anyway, enjoy that