I love how someone stops by every 10 posts or so and is like “Yo man up”. I mean really why would you even enter a thread called “SSF4 AE v2012 - Official Akuma Changes Discussion” and not expect displeasure. I will most likely stay with Akuma regardless of nerfs but that does not mean I should welcome them.
Do you seriously think I come here just to diss you guys? I went and check through every other characters AE2012 discussion thread, this is the only thread I posted in because this is the worst one. Akumn thread is the saltiest one, even more then Yun and yang and Fei and Makato and all the other character that get nerfed, and really. I wish to improve them with a brighter attitude. Discuss the technicality rather then showing so much salts.
I am hoping to see what the community feel about the nerf and in specific, how they plan on dealing with it. Seeing a bunch of people whining about it is, in my opinion, rather nonconstructive. Seeing people asking for buff on a character that already is on the top of the tier list really just show me how greedy some people are. They are not here looking for balance, they are looking for whatever they can get. The few who tries to defenses the changes are largely drown by truck loads of salt. Why can’t you talk about how to deal with over head palm instead and how easy it is get out of it so it doesn’t require nerf? Why not talk about the 2f of throw nerf in that fashion too, tell us how to get out of it easily, so it doesn’t requires a nerf? Why don’t you go and do that? I bet you can’t, cause it is too good in a few match up, it does need nerf to keep the game balance. Can you defense yourself logically?
Given that kinda attitude, I would say the rest of your insight are equally pointless.
You clearly don’t have a clue as to the significance of this nerf. Akuma is primarily a mix-up character. He doesn’t have the DP or the health or the stun resistance or the zoning game of the other shotos, but what has has gotten in compensation for that throughout the SFIV series has been the ability to mix people up on wake up. With the forward throw getting nerfed probably 40% of all of the staple mix-ups Akuma has have now been wiped out.
I’m really starting to agree with Wolfkrone, who said that whenever someone does something interesting with a character anymore, Capcom nerfs it. They are actively discouraging innovation and really learning the game with their balance policy. They listen to the cry babies and don’t have the courage of their convictions to leave the game well alone when a good balance has been achieved. Yes, occasional nerfs are needed. E.g. Akuma flip throw recovery and infinite in vanilla, Yun dive kick in AE. But they are too heavy handed nowadays.
How significance the nerf is have no relation to this discussion. The only thing that matter is whether this nerf is necessary or not.
Akuma is the fastest moving Shotos. Have one of the best DP and is -the- best zoning character. Seriously, did you just said he doesn’t have as much zoning game as other shoto? Do you even play your own character?
No disagreement here.
How many % of it doesn’t really matter. Why don’t you tell me, instead, how to get out of his mix ups in particular match up?
For all the other character, they all have way to get out, except this one. There are no out at all for certain character. This, is what Capcom is fixing, perhaps you can show them how to get out of the mix up beside “guess right on a 33% odd”?
I apologize if I hurt your feeling’s not my intentions. Gamogo posted some great frame data comparisons data on page 5 and If you need help in the Akuma match up hit me up on XBl: Rakae.
Like you said, it matters whether the nerf is necessary or not.
So tell me how is a grab nerf necessary that failed to fix what they were intending to.
Momochi dropped Akuma for Ken because he said Ken was better at zoning.
Sit down. Next troll step up.
The grab nerf was necessary because it was trying to avoid giving Akuma an unblockable and a flowchart set up. Look at other characters. Do any of them have similar mix up like this? Akuma have an almost auto pliot set up after something as simple as a forward throw that give him safe jump, overhead, armor break, unblockable throw, high low AND cross up mixup + anti-dash option select, all in one package
Do other character have that?
Zoning for what? Do you have any context or source?
Other characters have precisely that, both unblockables and flowchart setups.
Find the source yourself.
Yes, that’s what some of us may have thought given your attitude, since you came here and said that our character got major nerfs other characters suffered three versions ago, when you ignored that the most nerfed character from Vanilla to Super was the same exact character whose board we’re writing our messages into - and should also be the only one to get nerfed 3 times in a row. To me at least, it looked like you just don’t know about the game and its history, and are here to diss on Gouki’s players and provoke them, yeah. And that holds very much true now that I read the bolded part.
Btw lmao @ checking the other boards, when the only nerfed characters were Makoto (Vryu saying everything’s fine, and no wonder why, -50 health and some negligible damage nerfs, with her core gameplay intact and some minor boosts - target combo being cancelable and hitbox for a couple of moves improved), Viper (lost like what, 30 damage per round? gg), Fei Long (lower damage output and what, 2nd hit of LP Rekka going from -6 to -8 and the removal of the retarded cancel into CW on certain characters? You know, Mago was like “that’s all?”), and the obvious nerfs to Yun and Yang where everyone and their grandfathers expected those nerfs, since they were purposely made stronger than anyone else. Of freaking course you can expect salt here.
And no, there’s nothing to discuss about the palm overhead. The opponent just have to block low and charge characters won’t lose their d/b charge, you don’t have anything to exploit there, you lost an effective H/L mixup.
Do you really expect us to come out and create a bunch of setups in like 1 day? Lots of us have already said will wait to see how things pan out. If you still haven’t noticed, it’s not a matter of lower damage here, where basically nothing is gonna change for your gameplan.
Why exactly is Akuma getting weaker and weaker in each incarnation?
Okay so you know Guy has this sort of setup as well. Forward throw into either a 50/50 crossup/noncrossup and safe jump, just like Akuma does. Your point is invalid. Did they nerf this setup on him?
Cammy has UNBLOCKABLES on Shotos off her THROW. And her throw never got changed…
And when are people gonna stop saying “well he gets this awesome palm thing, an a demon flip and a air hado and WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Akuma has tools my character doesnt havethem boo hoo :(”
Well guess fucking what? Guess what we get for having all those tools? Fucking 850 stun/health ie: Get hit twice and die
Does your character guess wrong twice and die? No? Then shut the fuck up. People bitch about Akuma’s tools and why their characters arent as good and they never look at stun / health
I said I was never going to respond to these dumb complaints about akuma nerfs… but i’m frustrated ;__;
Explain why please.
DF palm still rapes all of balrogs options, that’s all that matters.
I don’t think I’ve ever used DF palm to hit as an overhead, so I don’t see why this is bothering so many people. I understand how the throw nerf sucks, but we will figure out different setups.
I was wondering about that too.
I mean, we will get hit 20-30 harder per b&b. Sure it’s good for Rog, but that’s where it ends. Then what, like 40 more damage off the overhead (well about 70 more considering the headbutt too)? One shouldn’t get hit by that in the first place tbh.
You don’t use it to hit high, you use hit to force the opponent to quickly block high and then low. Now they just do D/B.
It’s not the end of the world, but still doesn’t help us, also considering that charge characters will maintain the charge.
What is the point of posting something if you don’t plan on backing it up with any information?
I don’t disagree with you, this does seem like what they are doing, but this is not a “Make game fun for specific character edition” this is a “Balance edition”. Well, not literally, but you get the point, I hope.
No hard feeling and thanks for the offer!
What is the point of saying something if you don’t plan on backing it up? Might as well shut up and don’t post anything.
Look, the other characters have not been sitting on the top of the tier list all three versions either. This argument does not actually makes sense. And it doesn’t defend whether the nerf is necessary or not.
It is quite provoking feeling, I get that, but attack my theory, not the person. People here are not only asking for both nerf to go away, but ask for more buff. Is this reasonable to you? is this how a balanced game supposed to be like? I am saying those are not reasonable. I don’t know what your stands is.
I am kinda hoping you would defend why it should stays in place.
This one really doesn’t do high low. They still can’t whiff something and suddenly become a safe jump. It doesn’t throw anyone that are crouching, not an overhead, and only cause knock down on throw. Also does not do armor break as an option, 50/50 is still much better then 30/70
Cammy have unblockable, but not a bunch of other options pack in one place along with it.
And now we are discussing balance. If it is balance, why is he on the top of the tier list?
Seriously, is there no logical discussion here at all?
No it’s not a red herring, stop trying to kid yourselves that Capcom’s testers are crap, Raoh wasn’t even considered one of the better ones when Seth was talking about them years ago and his team came equal 3rd in SBO last year for 3rd Strike. You guys are kidding yourselves if you think Capcom went after corner unblockables and weren’t able to figure out that there’s other ways to set them up.
If it makes yourself better keep telling yourselves that it’s all about unblockables and not the looping pressure. But but but Ibuki has it and she did STOP, ignore You ignore that Ibuki is a much weaker character than Akuma and that Akuma has a massive amount of advantages over her. Ibuki is all about her vortex, take that out and she is nothing. She can’t be the TOD rushdown machine she was in 2nd Impact without a total redesign (and a system and engine change…)
The developers singled out toning down Akuma’s looping pressure, this change won’t get removed. Even if you could provide a fairer means to adjust his looping pressure it doesn’t matter since Capcom are hard nosed and these loc tests are more for bug fixing than anything else.
I’m not here to gloat or anyone, I just don’t want you guys being in denial. To use your “But Ibuki/Seth/Viper” still have their looping pressure argument against you why are other characters able to still do their “unblockables?”. It’s not like these 1 frame to block “unblockables” were discovered for Akuma first…
I don’t look at the tier lists tbh, but rather at how characters fare at majors, whether they shows dominance etc.
The only thing Akuma won in like more than a year has been CEO 2011, where half the competition was at Norcal or whatever that tourney was. And said Akuma was Tokido. There’s no one else beside him at elite level, no one is even close to him (I’m talking about overall level here, someone might argue Infiltration has even better footsies than Tokido, and Murderface himself stated how his fireball game is not top notch) actually.
And even if we were to take Tokido alone, I failed to see that kind of dominance a character eligible for the nerf hammer (or simply some fine tuning) shows. Some other characters showed that: Viper with her non stop pressure, guessing game and insane damage, Fei Long with his hard damaging punisher/reversals, insane pushback and pokes, Yun and yang with… pretty much everything. Tokido’s late performances and results prove that I’m not wrong more than ever, just watch his replays at Evo or GsG: at times he lost even playing great.
My point here: I don’t care where they put him in the tier lists, he wasn’t insanely strong/dominant to deserve nerfs. Buffing the whole cast alone like they did would’ve been enough, since this game was already pretty balanced and being Akuma the lowest stun character in the game and the 2nd weakest health wise he can easily lose even when a matchup is in his favor with a single mistake.
No hard feeling, really, I was just pissed there that you kind of forgot what Akuma got from Super to Vanilla - and that thing was harsh, despite of how he still does.
That aside: if you got half an hour on your hand, take a look at what people asked in the wishlist thread. Majority of people asked for Akuma not to be touched (among these, MBR who’s arguably the best Akuma in EU), while some asked for slight (let me bold this) bump in the stun department, even at the cost of some damage nerf - because it gets blatantly ridiculous when you successfully mixup your opponent 5 times (or even 6 if he’s bulky) and he’s still far from being stunned. I vortex people and they laugh at me because I’m far from being threatening even after a couple mixups and don’t do any major damage without a st.HP combo, which coincidentally comes from divekicks and crossups combos, the hardest to land.
And that was a simple wish, one you may or may not agree, not some “jeez capcom our character suck, buff us or die, I won’t buy your game anymore” kind of thing - yeah, I read that in many character boards.
I think everyone’s concern here is the throw thing. The overhead is a slap to your face, but you deal with it, it’s not uncommon to see a top tier weakened.
The nerf to the throw forces you back into the lab, and god knows whether or not they won’t touch it again (you know, they basically hit the undo button with the changes in 2012) and make you waste your time one more time. Well, I wish it was only that, we lost some safejump and majority of crossup tactics off a throw.
Honestly, do you think those +21 damage on U2 during Ashuras balance off the changes?
This is why:
[media=youtube]bA8a0j_acbE[/media]
Not a perfect example, but an example none the less. You can play perfectly and then one mistake = 80% of your health gone.