the akuma/fei match up is a bit more in akuma’s (and probably anyone else’s) favor since the way I read the rekka nerf was that you can punish cleanly after the 2nd rekka.
I don’t know about Akuma still being S tier, I think with the nerfs he’s maybe mid A-tier.
Really, this sucks for any setups off the “exploding heart technique” (fwd throw, dash x 2, whatever). Those saying that the changes are not final or that there may be “more” changes to the properties of the throw (shorter distance thrown?), I’m not buying it… Why not say so off the bat? Seems that’s a pretty crucial omission , don’t you think? “Oh, BTW, we forgot to mention the throw doesn’t go as far… Sorry about that guys! LOLOLOL!!..”
Bottom line, they listen to the bitches who think Akuma is overpowered and they’re ruining him. Like Hitler said: “He’s a FUCKING demon! Not some green monkey or an old guy dying of cancer!! Of course he should be top-tier!” /rant
I guess we’re just gonna have to learn to deal with it. Maybe some matchups become better now, maybe some become worse. sigh
It’s just so freakin’ stupid…
I love all these salty tears. Y’all complain about how long it took you to learn Akuma? So you are pissed because of your own learning disabilities? Funny. News flash…to be good with ANY character takes time and patience. Not just Akuma. Trust me I’ve been playing Akuma ever since Capcom introduced him into the storyline. And been playing SF long before that so I know what I’m talking about. Every character in the game has multiple levels of play in terms of footsies, character-specific strategy, etc. It’s up to you to learn it…however long it takes. So hop in the shower and rinse all that self-pity off.
It’s not like we couldn’t punish 2nd hit of rekka at all tbh.
Several corner shenanigans and setups built around the throw were frame specific, it’s not a bunch of move your randomly throw and hope you’ll stuff reversals, land on front, crossup your opponent etc.
I don’t care how long you’ve been playing, but even if you were the freaking Tokido you’d still have to hit the lab (and hard too, in this case) to research them again and make them work (assuming the majority of stuff will still work - though we already know we lost stuff like midscreen tatsu crossups). And it doesn’t help your saying “you gotta learn”, yeah thanks, I know that.
You don’t screw a character which is so setup centered just 'cause you cannot fix a damn unblockable.
I’ve also been playing for a while and I will say that most characters have an easy entrace level. Sure after a certain point it takes hard work and skill to advance but Akuma requires that from day one.
That’s the difference. I get tired of the people who keeping saying Akuma is just a hard as any other character. That is blaitently false and even some of the pros agree with me on that. Hard starts hard and says hard.
When Akuma was introduced to the storyline, he didn’t take very much skill to play.
Please ignore this douche.
If you are talking about ST no duh. I am not talking about that.
I’m pretty sure you shouldn’t count the last startup frame because it’s also the first active frame, so cr.mp total frames for example would be 3+3+9 = 15 frames
@ the dude who says Akuma will be S Tier even with the nerfs, how can you be S Tier if you have 2 bad normal throws? The mixup characters have amazing throws except for Akuma now (Seth SPD & back throw, Viper forward & back throw…etc), if Akuma’s forward throw remains exactly the same but +2 recovery frames it would give us trouble vs a lot of the cast, but if Capcom reduced the pushback a bit it will still be very good, gotta wait and hope for the best.
I bet not a single Akuma player expected Capcom to nerf the forward throw like this, guess we underestimated how stupid they can be lol !
Exactly.
Also, what lx240nyu said, (72 frames, not 76).
I don’t know how he can say he’ll be S tier when the changes aren’t finalized and 80 % of the cast got buffed.
But you’ll always find people complaining about Akuma just cause they don’t know how his stuff works and how to deal with it, so they think he’s unbeatable or something. Heck, the boards in my country are the worst lately.
I didn’t rule out them touching the unblockables, but that was way too far to predict lol.
I expected Capcom to fix the unblockables, but I thought they would actually attempt to fix the problem.
This “solution” will still result in unblockables. In fact until they address the real problem (wacky wake up hurt boxes) unblockables will always exist in this game.
Hard vs. easy is a subjective concept. What’s hard for one may not be for another. I don’t deny that Akuma takes more than a little bit of foundation knowledge from day one. I never said Akuma was just as hard as any other character. I said ‘To be good with ANY character takes time and patience.’ How you changed that into me saying ‘Akuma is as hard as any other character.’ I have no clue. But I’ll leave you to figure that one out. The only point I’m making is that whether you think a character is easy, or hard, or starts hard and remains that way, or starts hard and becomes easy, or whatever way you wish to term it, SF is a game that takes time and patience to become skilled in. Regardless of the CHARACTER OF CHOICE.
I’d break you IRL. Peasant…
My interpretation is that the unblockables being killed off is a side-effect/bonus of their real intention, that which is cutting back Akuma’s ability to repeat setups on opponents. Akuma’s continued mix-up pressure they are trying to kill dead and this method (f.throw nerf) appears to be an extremely efficient method of doing so.
The palm change layered on top is just a slap in the face.
Viper and Seth’s mixups IMO have higher reward than Akumas and they weren’t touched at all, I truly believe the forward throw nerf was just a lazy fix for the unblockables, it doesn’t make any sense nerfing Akuma’s vortex when the guy’s power output is so weak considering his health.
If they have increased his damage at other places, I’d believe they might be trying to change our style and make it less dependent on the vortex, but that didn’t happen.
I think that reasoning is a red herring. I suspect the real reason was the unblockables.
I mean come on, are they really more concerned with our limited vortex that results in mediocre damage and stun and decent positioning? If they are really concerned with such things…um…Viper/Seth/Ibuki? Or are they actually concerned with unblockable setups that can kill the opponent.
The note about the repeat setups just seems to me a justification for a change that won’t even remove unblockables.
I think the point is being missed. Capcom’s design decision here is clearly to prevent repeated setups that force opponents to guess as often. With this goal in mind, the change isn’t stupid, it makes sense (in an irritating way).
The catch is that as players this directly affects Akuma’s style and gameplan and also detracts from the fun and satisfaction of applying setups and using him. Forward throw is the can opener - once you land it, its fuckin’ game time.
Nerfing this not only directly affects his gameplan and style, but it will actually make him less fun to use. It will also detract from his offence which makes things a lot more dull in my opinion.
I actually played a bunch of games last night refraining from using forward throw setups as an experiment. Its annoying, but at the same time I can play a string of serious matches and not get many forward throw opportunities anyway. Instead I focused on sweep setups and close-up initiated mixups. I must admit, I felt neutered in the corner, but I guess that means we have new stuff to figure out.
I actually run through a similar process before Super came out with respect to the loop when I played against Sagat and Abel. Naturally we’ve all adjusted from that, so I’m curious to see how we adjust to this throw change.
Here’s the problem - this isn’t actually the case. This change is inconsistent with the other changes in this balance patch. Other characters (Seth/Ibuki/Viper) with repeat pressure or loops have not been touched in that regard at all. And some of these characters get just as much if not more than Akuma.
Had other characters with loop pressure or vortex setups been changed I could believe this, but as it stands this is an obvious attempt to fix the unblockables. There are easier and more obvious ways to change Akuma’s vortex from a throw. Change the distance that Akuma throws the opponent, further, shorter, whatever. However such a change would have zero impact on the corner unblockables and hence would not be adopted.
It seems clear to me that the change was motivated by the unblockables but as a “bonus” they just weakened the character.
I’m sorry I just don’t buy it, if Capcom didn’t like repeated setups, Viper, Seth or Abel have just as much or probably even worse repeated mixup setups that can change the entire match around. I think you’re looking way too deep into capcom’s reasoning, in my eyes this is a clear lazy fix for the unblockables.
I mean Akuma has a very very bad back throw and the new nerf could make him have a bad forward throw as well, that does not make sense to me at all, a character like Akuma deserves at least one good normal throw where he can at the very l least go for the normal shoto crossup/safejump jump-ins.
Akuma is not That Godlike that he doesn’t even need a decent throw.
Yeah, the repeat (or ‘loop’ as they call it) setups justification DOES fall apart when you consider Seth, Ibuki and Viper, I agree. I was actually thinking about this last night also - particularly for Seth. He has several ways to launch into a repeated string of setups and if any connect, you’re eating damage and stun for quite a long time before you can even regain control.
Oddly, Capcom are ok with Seth’s ability to do this but not Akuma’s.
Oh and while you have me back in bitching mode, I feel Evil Ryu’s stun and health buff when contrasted against his buffs and raw damage+stun output is a bit cheeky. He’s looking quite solid in 2012 and definitely an attractive option for both Akuma and Ryu players now.
The absolute worst part about all this is the most balanced character is getting raped because Capcom is simply too fucking lazy to do something about the game code to fix the unblockables.
I honestly hope Ono’s bosses pull the plug on this balance project. I would rather deal with Yun as is than get a weak Akuma.
Speaking about Evil Ryu, looking at his 6f sweep buff, do you guys think he’ll be able to tatsu sweep everyone Akuma can at the moment? With his slower sweep (7 or 8f) he could tatsu > sweep the characters that are very floaty like Rog or Sim. If he can tatsu sweep like Akuma, that would be very good because he can already stand opponents up with his st.hp.
Evil Ryu is definitely my #1 choice right now if I ever decided to make the switch, even though my alternate is Bison, I’m just more of a shoto fan myself.