Well some of these Akuma players in this forum do not know their character’s options & r not adapting against the way DJ is designed… i think DJ makes Akuma look free only when the akuma player keeps doing “unsafe” vortex game on him…in the beginning of SuperSF 4 im not going to lie i did have problems w DJ but over time as i have lvled up, i realized how 1 dimensional ur character is thats when this match up become a whole lot easier & the light bulb went off n my head as well my footsie game has gotten a whole lot better, that aspect alone frustrates any DJ player when they get KDown & when i do vortex Dj players I do it right & wil make u whiff as well as OS this character on reaction, also if u face a good akuma player u will not b able to zone akuma out or jump in on him or cross up bc Akuma can blow all of that up bc DJ’s flowchart consist of- sonic boom ditto oh he blocked standing now i can slide & trip him or oh he focused my sonic boom now i can slide & trip him again, or oh wow i got a knockdown now i can cross up & do cr.jab block string into trip perhaps or to frametrap kicks then if we r spaced properly u will throw out a ex kick of some kind & if u see a unsafe jump in u can ex upkicks or regular upkick if u will–fighting DJ is straight forward IMHO no disrespect-- have good footsies & spacing & solid rush down and know DJ and be smart with focusing Dj any akuma player can have success against him & if like ur self face a good DJ player have good patience and keep Dj out with his jump ins & watch for cr.sweep at times and if the player is uncomfortable w DJ cross ups simply teleport and do the above i described…what can DJ do nothing & play disrespectfully & demon the hell out of him if he does something crazy —nothing against u oh i forgot to mention if ur skilled w vortexing do tatsu into sweep against DJ-- also i now a secret that i can use is always fun bc they can blow up ur “invincible super active” kicks
explain
i guess we all needa go find new setups in training?
They nerfed his throw (fundamental) which leads to a safe jump setup (more fundamentals).
I’m not going to bother finding stuff unless the changes are 100% official, if the only change they did to Akuma after forward throw is the 2 extra recovery frames (i.e the knocked down opponent distance is still the same), I’m like 99% sure we won’t have our safejump/x-up game anymore after it vs a lot of the cast with 6f reversals and faster, the opponent just falls way too far and we don’t have enough time to position ourselves.
Akuma should be the superior Shoto in the game because of his lower stamina/stun, so much for not being able to go for the basic shoto safejump/x-up after normal throws lol.
I still have some hope this Ridiculous nerf doesn’t make it to the final game, it’s just too stupid.
Haha oh wow, some random I beat yesterday with Fei claimed the matchup was 7-3 in Fei’s favor.
Sounds like you are fighting flowchart DJs
I wish I had such hope, I think that if those weren’t gonna be final they wouldn’t have bothered publishing them. 
I just got the vivid image in my head of T. Hawk doing Raging Typhoon on small children. My god.
To all those saying these changes aren’t even final yet and the loc tests are still happening… don’t you guys remember when we were going from Vanilla to Super? Once Capcom posts the change list on the blog, that’s it - I seriously doubt they will be re-tuning any of that stuff, regardless of the loc test feedback.
Keep in mind the release date they’ve already targeted, and then consider the amount of time and planning that would need to go into getting feedback from loc tests, making the changes, and then organizing another round of loc testing - that alone would take over a month. And that’s not even considering that patches on PSN and XBLA need to go through QA testing with Sony and MS, which takes a few weeks to process before they can set a solid release date.
It is highly unlikely Capcom will reneg on their proposed changes.
The reality is that we need to shut up and deal. Yes, we’ve lost a lot and our mixup, vortex and safejump game just took a swift kick to the balls. We need to wait and see how these changes pan out though. They will invoke new setups and force us into UTK options that don’t stem from forward throw.
This means ‘expected’ Akuma setups will no longer exist - there might be new ones. New for us to apply, new for our opponents to eat. That could be interesting in and of itself.
I also suspect there will be a shift in style that focuses a lot more on frame traps and sweep knock downs. Don’t forget that flip grab also opens up a wealth of setups.
Another thing to consider is the psychological aspect of the palm no longer being an overhead. I am also a Gouken player, and many Gouken players cried foul over his dive kick being changed in Super so it could be blocked low. As such, Gouken was reduced to only one flip option that could be used on crouchers - just like Akuma - his demon flip grab. The interesting thing to consider here is that this didn’t change the way players DEFENDED against Gouken’s demon flips. They continued to block high. (Do YOU block Gouken’s demon flip dive kick low? Honestly?) There is a psychological element to aerial attacks that invokes high blocks - consider it muscle memory, reaction, whatever. Palm no longer being an overhead while technically issuing a ‘safer’ block option for opponents, you’ll find that it still doesn’t necessarily mean everyone will defend high. And if they block low? Bait out with a short palm whiff and then perform a j.hk. Thats one option. Another is to whiff into overhead. Another is to whiff into another lk flip > grab (lol). But there’s still a grab bag of options for us still.
Case in point - dive kick. Ever seen anyone defend that low? Never. A contributing factor of course is the threat of palm snuffing the low block, but my point is that there is an inclination to block high regardless of the technical merits behind his options. I am curious to see how this pans out.
There are options that follow, its not the end of the world. Does it make his vortex weaker? Of course, but we need to deal with it and get creative with what we have. New things will emerge, a new style will come about.
Another consideration as others have pointed out is that we don’t have the full detail yet. F throw has +2 additional frames of recovery - but what of its other properties? Do they fall a shorter distance? Does it do more stun? Damage? Have they perhaps altered his dash? We simply don’t know, we need to be patient and in all honesty wait for Tokido’s hands-on feedback. If anyone can give a constructive assessment on Akuma’s standing with these nerfs, its Tokido. He invented the stuff we copy. Its his property.
Now don’t get me wrong, these nerfs disappointment me and I’m as snotty as the next Akuma player. They make Akuma a lesser character, they make him weaker, they detract an element of fun from him and they negate a lot of practise but at the same time before I cry foul I want to see how these changes actively pan out and what they really mean for us. THEN and only then can we start waving our flaming torches and pitchforks.
As a Rufus main, I’m a little disappointed in Akuma’s nerfs. Although many Rufus mainers like myself hate this match-up, I find it fun and risky because of the damage and zoning Akuma can do, and what me as a player, have to figure out ways to get in and start some offense. I don’t know if these nerfs will ruin this character completely, but for all the Akuma players, you have my dearest sympathies.
I am honestly not bothered by the DF palm nerf, they could have done FAR WORSE things to it, like removing the armor breaker properties or adding recovery to it like DF throw, that would have made Akuma’s Demon Flips a joke and I would have seriously considered changing my main.
As for the forward throw nerf, I am just like you waiting to know more about it and if there will be any new properties like reducing how far the opponent gets knocked down or if there will be any alteration to Akuma’s dashes.
It’s just that, we know Capcom are lazy and if forward throw remains exactly the same but with +2 recovery frames, these are the only mixups I can see being invented so I’m not all that excited about figuring out new setups because the recovery frames really limit things:
- DF palm safejump/OS sweep or DF throw mixup
- DF palm whiff x-up or dive kick from front mixup which we have to see if it’s possible with the added recovery frames and which characters it’ll work on
But if they do end up being final and ARE all the changes, we’re not overreacting in the least.
Actually…Crying more might help lol, lets all Tweet Tokido/Ono to test and convince Ono not to destroy Akuma Plox. Things can still change!!! (Im serious though, didn’t Ono say we should tweet him our suggested changes? If we wanted too, things could change)
The thing is, im fighting bad players all the time (I play ranked @1k PP atm my Ken had around 3500-4200 PP though) and Endless mode = Me waiting 30 minutes (reason I have such few points is cause I treat Ranked like Practice mode, I always pick random characters lol) + im an agressive player playing a low HP character, that does not work cause I only play SRK spammers + Lag. Of course I could bait and punish all day, but whats the fun in that? And as mentioned im pretty agressive with Vortex/mixup chars so Ill def. get hit by one or two = -40% HP and = me being afraid to do anything.
So yea thats my story, Cool story bro, idk why I even, ya dun goofd. But what I wanted to say with that is…To true Akuma players this is no reason to give him up, people play plenty of mid or even low tier characters, Akuma is still gonna be around the top/mid somewhere, people have stuck with worse characters before. Ill still play him too but only Vs Good players or none-reversal happy dudes lol (My Seth suffers from this too :() But these changes do frking suck.
Ok guys here is Ono’s twitter - http://twitter.com/#!/yoshi_onochin
If you want to make a change you need to be heard.
Loctests are still ongoing so these changes may not be final. http://www.capcom-unity.com/gregaman/blog/2011/08/22/street_fighter_x_tekken_dev_blog:_location_test_info!
Let’s see what can be done.
I like how they fix ryu’s air tatsu an do nothing for akumas. Then they fix oni’s EX tatsu from dropping hits an again nothing done for akuma’s it makes no sence.
If Akuma doesn’t get any buffs and stuck with a truly garbage forward throw, I might consider picking E.Ryu up, 900 health/stun sounds delicious, 6frame sweep is a huge buff since he has a fast knockdown tool now and he can probably tatsu > sweep more characters and the guy is a stun machine.
If his teleport was buffed to Akuma’s level and he had a faster cr.mk, I would have really really considered picking him up.
Of course I’ll never give up on Akuma until I’m sure Capcom truly screwed him over, I’ve been maining him since Vanilla and hope to do so forever.
They give E.Ryu a 6f sweep like Akuma (if my frame data reading is correct, if not ignore me as I am a retard).
At least fix the goddamn ex tatsu completely whiffing on some people or dropping hits on others. It’s so fucking annoying.
I dont know why they buff E. Ryu’s HP and Stun, he hits like a fucking truck and stuns so fast that i dont think he needs an hp buff :x . But well no matter what they do i still refuse to drop Akuma - i just put too much time into him since Vanilla.