Gief SPD and hawk spd are the same as far as startup speed. 2f. Gief has the double duplex that is 1f if close. His range is Slightly better than Hawk for SPD though. Both exSPD are 4f startup with invinicibilty frames on startup.
I should clarify: IF I can abuse the shit out of it, I do. It all depends on the person I’m playing. If they don’t punish it, I’ll go all kamakazie on them. If they do, I’ll mix it up and throw weird timings out there to confuse them. Even landing short throws them off sometimes. I really do love this move. In fact, I rarely use CS, I would say I use CD much, much more.
I personally think you’re setting yourself up for disappointment as you start player higher level players. They will punish you so badly on all your missed CDs. It’ll only get worst for those that know how to punish with supers/ultras.
I would suggest to practice using CDs for the following situations:
- On reaction. After jump, CD after opponent fireballs, missed dp, or any cue that indicates you’re safe. Do not do this with guile as he recovers very fast from sonic boom.
- Intentional cross-up.
- You can aim a CD at the opponent’s feet where your recovery is much safer. Not sure if this is true against everyone but this is hard to aim for since you might whiff.
I do all those things already my friend. I know when I can abuse it. I’ve backed off the dive against the high lvl players, but I’ll tell ya…I’ve really plateaued with Hawk. Gandalfrockman spanked the living crap out of me tonight and sent me home with my tail between my legs.
/rant about bad matchups
I’ve managed to rank up to B (BP which I know means shit)…however, I cannot stay beyond 5k…currently dropped almost 800 pts since friday, and dropped 500pp tonight alone. I will probably never get beyond 5k at this point…would need to win like 30 in a row, and that just ain’t gonna happen. I have ZERO answers for Blanka (I’m gonna RQ on the next one I see). In the higher ranked play I have won exactly ONE ROUND against Blanka’s. Dictator…seriously, his skull diver goes TOO HIGH to grab with U2. He frustrates me almost as much as Blanka. Yet again got hit in the back with his U2 when I’m clearly under him and completely(that’s 4 times now) on the other side. Vega…yeah…no answers against a good Vega either. DJ…F DJ. I’d rather play Guile and Akuma and Honda and Ryu all day than those 4. Oh, and shortcuts suck balls. I can’t tell you how many times I burned meter tonight because of shortcuts. Bah. Pfffft. F Blanka too.
/rant off
/off topic.
for Bison, i’ve been using U1 just because i don’t want to get baited and waste raging slash on a devil’s reverse or the follow up to a fake-out headstomp. If he is near you, stay grounded. st.hk will destroy any attempt to jump out. you basically have to glue your feet to the floor except when you bust out the spire pressure. do not attempt to spd a blocked lk scissor kick–it’s safe and you’ll just get booted in the face while hawk stares at his feet.
deejay–walk deejay to the corner just like you do guile. he doesn’t want to be near you cause if he misses a crossup mk or knees it’s free lp typhoon for you and time for your mixup to start. once you get deejay in the corner don’t cross him up. you want to stand just outside his range and stuff everything he does with st.hp and cr.mk. His back is against the wall and he is going to want to get out so anti-air any attempts to jump you, cr.fierce/tomahawk should work nicely, and make sure to block low so the slide doesn’t get you. condor dive is not your friend in this match and he can just fierce punch it/upkick it/or U2 it.
makoto–her st.mp beats any dive that doesn’t hit her toward the backside of her head. it’s really quite a good AA normal.
vega–i have some issues here too. Basically, don’t try to punish things unless you are absolutely sure you can. the rolls are often safe because they can be spaced and attempting a typhoon or a cr.jab will just lead to you eating counter-hit claw. focus all the wall dive shenanigans and either backdash/forward dash spd or punish if he happens to land in front of you.
also, i’m a firm believer that condor spire is hawk’s best tool (besides normals, obviously)–specifically, Ex Spire. The mobility, the mixup, the AA, going through projectiles, this move messes people up when you use it properly and put it in strings.
I would like the record to show that I learned a lesson: Do not play or post while under the influence of alcohol. Sorry for the slightly O/T Rant. But I did still get pwned by gandalfrockman, I have no trouble admitting that.
I don’t know what you’re talking about, Drunken Hawk is awesome as long as you’re not hammered enough that you can’t AA on reaction.
Edit: Can we all just settle on whether to post in this OR the other matchup thread? This forum is already a mess as is, it doesn’t need anything more to contribute to the clutter.
The old thread should be closed IMO.
I also think CS is a great move but I don’t think it’s great at AA. You can’t react AA with a CS. All good AAs have to be able to react with.
I use EX condor spire to punish opponents who think that they’ll get away with a lvl 2 focus attack on a hawk standing roundhouse. If you’ve conditioned them to go for it…punish them big time.
Anyone have a answer for bisons wake up ex psyco crusher on wake up. Bisons love this and if I can punish this wake up option it will make this match better.
EX TB? Should work…it hit’s Honda’s HB.
you could shield and wait for it to reach the other side then st hk it. It shoulda reach but im not 100% sure, kinda like rufus down fierce
Zangief could grab them out of it with Ultra1 in vanilla. Might still work in Super not sure. THawk may be able to as well if so. Someone can try it out and let us know. Or I can do it later tonight.
EDIT:
So I tried it out and it looks like it doesn’t work anymore. Or at least I couldn’t get it to work. We all know they improved Bison’s PC so, it looks like the buff eliminated this option.
any tips for fighting good fuerte players?
i know U2 is heavily recommended for this match up(due to the fact fuerte rarely sticks to the ground)
From a little time in training mode last night, I would suggest hold your ground, if he is going for a mix up off dash, c.hp seems to destroy all his options as does neutral jump lp (cancel into dive for a mix up). Don’t go looking for him unless you have to and try and be a brick wall.
No offence and you might feel I am having a go, but how about trying to figure some stuff out and coming on here with the attitude off - I am having problems in the Fuerte match, these are the things I struggle against…, but this is what I have found from my own tests in training mode so far to try and counter them. What else do you guys have? Trust, me when I say this, but recording what you loose to, working on the spacing of what you loose to and, finding counters and options on your own will vastly improve your game and understanding of your character and your opponents.
So i’ve been working a lot against a good guile and I think i’ve turned a corner here. previously, i was getting shut down because of the boom traps. i think my frustration is in one of the first posts on this thread. anyway–the new stuff! hope!
you need to pretend you are gief for this match–and by that i mean you need at least one ex bar to actually get in. And even then, because EX spire isn’t the quickest, you have to pick the right moment to land it. That moment happens when you are walking guile into the corner, neutral jumping booms (late dive to build a little meter and be safe-but don’t overuse or you’ll eat ex boom) and suddenly guile throws a lp boom and starts walking toward you. let your stick go to neutral and bust out the ex spire. Now you’ve got a knockdown and the safejumps can begin. A welltimed crossup splash will always knock guile out of flashkick. I have found that the splash, jabxN, far lk xx (ex) spire is REALLY helpful for this matchup as it gives you damage, stun, and mixup leading to another lp typhoon. a stunned guile is my favorite kind. You gotta mix it up though because guile can charge flashkick during the string and the spire will not combo so there’s a gap for him to throw it out. Otherwise, build meter by blocking a boom and using cr.mk to poke poke poke poke poke. If guile doesn’t do a backfist after a boom in his string i found I could generally sneak in a st.mp or another cr.mk. conditioning guile to AA cr.fierce you also helps as you can then empty jump to spd over a boom–but keep in mind that if guile jumps to meet you and you don’t dive/j.jab immediately you will be eating air throw. J.mk works in some situations since it reaches so far, but jumping in general is not the way to get in here. Also, if guile backfists you, just block. any attempt to poke after it will result in eating another backfist cause it’s so quick. I’ve landed U2 a couple times in this match but i’m leaning toward u1 against the guiles that lame it out. guile has no reason to jump–even if you back him into the corner. he’ll just sit in charge and wait. guiles will/should choose sonic hurricane for this matchup and if he’s low on life he’s totally gonna try and find a place to throw it out. The best part, though, is that you can toss out a st.HP or st.RH and if guile does it on reaction you can still get the hit in ftw.
Nice write up for guile. Only thing I would add is feel free to jump forward over booms he is not following to gain ground more quickly (because at mid range boom pushes you back as far as you can walk forward so ex spire as mentioned above is your safe way in then). You also cannot FADC boom at mid range to close space - if he sends out another or looks for a poke, the recovery of the dash is simply too slow.
Thanks TamanaPants,
You’ve been a great contributor to the T.Hawk forum recently. Personally, I’ve been taking a break from T.Hawk and have been focusing on DJ but I still maintain this match-up thread…
Great write-up. Adding to the guile section.
Thanks!