thanks you guys (and lol at pumpkinbomber’s statement). props for the quick reply. if you guys don’t mind, i’ll post this up in the bison forums as well and credit you guys properly - i’m sure the bison forums don’t mind questions either, and hopefully some discussion like this can up the overall level of our games.
gridman came up to me, mid match, while i was playing a bison in a tourney in CT as hawk and told me to use cr.mp a bunch in footsies. And, as it turns out, pumpkinbomber, cr.mp will destroy all of bison’s pokes if you get the range right. bison’s st. mk and st. hk lose if you get the poke out first cause bison’s hitbox moves into the absurdly long range and lengthy active frames of the move. combine that with the fact that, somehow, i’ve stuffed ex headstomp with cl.mp (right at the tip of hawk’s hand) a couple of times and you’ve got some major game changes.
Bison player here, but I’ve gotten a lot of Hawk experience playing some PSN player named popo(random numbers here) at hella late hours of the night and the dude knows his stuff. If you can read Bison’s wakeup EX PC or headstomp, T. Hawk can jump back (timed well, of course) on Bison’s wake-up and get a free spd/ultra/super. Cr. Mp and st. fierce are the go to footsie moves, as both can stuff out scissor kicks and random pokes. Sweep at odd times works really well at mid range if used sparingly (especially against those bisons that like hitting buttons randomly to “pose a threat”) T. Hawk’s other normals are generally slow, and will force you to eat something if done at all improperly. If you block a-spd-able scissor kick or have a bison who likes to sit there not holding charge, condor spire can really eat Bison up. Plus, if they DO know how to punish it with roundhouse for example, space your spires to where you’ll land at a point where the leg will hit you at the end of its active frames, and get a free spd (conditioning ftw). T. Hawk can corner bison really if you can get in. Match is 5-5, imo. Sorry I’m not all that great at explaining things well. Any of you PSN guys can add me and we’ll have some matches. It’s one of my favorite matches to play because of how strenuously lame Bison has to play, and the guessing needed when Bison’s cornered.
Anyone have tips against Balrog and his ridiculous jab and near zero recovery frame dash punches?
Lucky for us we have a few “near zero” startup moves. lp.SPD any rush punch or TAP on block if not spaced properly some even on hit. then proceed to cross him up and Option select him to death on his wakeup. crouching MK is also excellent in this matchup for stopping non-EX rush punches. And like every character, you can throw him out of all Rush punches. EX are easiest to throw since you can see them coming easier. Block any random HB and punish with SPD, Super, U1 as you like.
I find his headbutt is really good though. You have to cross up SUPER deep on wakeup in order to not get hit I think. Very specific.
So I can literally just throw him out of dash punches? Probably only up close though huh? If spaced properly isn’t the only thing that gets close to you his fist?
of course his headbutt is good, but that’s why we have safe jump o-s tactics that kick his ass. it’s on you to get your safe jumps down then you’ll see how battles against most rogs change.
Any HB other than ex version is trash and will lose or trade to a crossup splash. But if you time a safe jump.RH the startup on all HB is so terrible you can block and punish. They learn eventually to just block. Then u empty jump SPD. Then they learn to back dash. Then you OS sweep. See where I’m going here? You should look at the T Hawk laboratory thread to see all the options.
Yes, good advice
Identify patterns
Have solid footsies
Have solid defense
All I can really say. In a lot of sitatuons its seems stupid to force feed someone an answer when its a lot easier to just go into training mode and figure it out =/
I played against a decent Bison today, and I agree that the match is 5-5. Once you knock Bison down you can option-select a lot of things that he does on wakeup (ex pc, teleport). Cr.mp also destroys everything Bison has in footsies. Damn it’s so awesome in this matchup.
Bison footsies > T.Hawk footsies.
If Bison has more Bars than you, its really hard to get going. And if they know ranges of SK then its even harder.
I think Bison has better footsies, and bison is much better at sitting there and doing nothing, waiting to react than T. Hawk is.
Also, I don’t see a lot of OS’ing working against good Bisons. I think the main reason it’s 5-5 is because you can do so much more damage to Bison, and can corner him much easier than other chars. If you knock good a Good bison down, You’ll see things like block THEN teleport. then it gets deeper where if you know he’ll do that, you can spire to get in close for the SPD, but if he PC’s, you’ll eat that. But that situation probably won’t occur against 99% of people. Your OS will work against people mashing EX PC and teleport. 
It’s not like only scrubs use ex pc to escape on wakeup you know. Some good players do it to (not saying the Bison I was playing was good, cause he wasn’t that good).
The reason why Bison wins this 6-4 is because bison can adapt his moveset to the situation while Hawk can’t; he (Hawk) does not have a variety of get in options like bison does. Bisons wake up is still terrible however, Bison can just out footsie hawk and there’s nothing you can do.
Geif has a better chance vs Bison.
Half of the people on the Internet, for the record, are terrible. Do not base your match-up experience on the internet unless they are players who you know outside the internet are good (I.E Gridman, Josh Wong, Ryder, etc)
Your better off finding well known players online and get match-up experience from them or just go to tourneys than base ridiculous claims on Internet scrubs.
A good bison will mind fck you to the point you will have no idea what works and what does not.
Gief has a better chance against a lot of people.
I was playing offline at casuals, the Bison just wasn’t that good lol.
Word. I don’t think it’s 6-4 because Bison doesn’t have any significant or dominate advantage. Like the Geif matchup, Bison can get eaten up while knocked down. And like the Geif matchup, Bison can keep Hawk out the whole time. I can understand a disagreement arising though.
Bison is definitely 6-4 because if he doesn’t mess up in a big way, he’s probably going to win. It’s that simple. He doesn’t really have to guess until you get inside, and the whole time he’s going to be chipping at your life whilst you try to get in. It’s also much easier for him to get away with teleports from Hawk than it is for him to get away from Gief. EX Green hand is option selectable, condor dive is not.
It’s not a particularly difficult 6-4 though. Hawk does have a few thinks to make Bison think twice in close. Stuffing his normals and scissor kicks with CH st.lp is pretty fun and causes surprisingly large (50!) damage.
^^ Ex spire is option selectable, faster, and safer than green hand and also leads to almost the exact same setups.
To be honest thought In the defense of people thinking its a 5-5 if you have the lead (Over a 30% diff) you should win the match baring an extreme screw up. The problem is you just have to not let bison get going.
Bison Hawk is very barely 6-4 bison. Realistically Id say its 5-5 if you realize that bisons major damage comes from you being unable to block an ambiguous crossup or him punishing you for crouch teching. Bison really just chips away at you and doesnt have something scary like dp fadc ultra. Hawk can play footsies with bison as good if not better than any other character. In fact I feel hawk might actually win the footsie battle because of crouch strong and forward alone. Dont lose to random ass EX PC gimmicks that every bison fucking lives for.
I might go back to hawk primarily and seth secondary. I dunno. I been itching to play him lately again.