It’s all on theory. Theory fighting doesn’t take in c. hit set-ups, it’s just what can be done to counter certain shit.
But in actual game, it’s harder to react unless the Rose really doesn’t know her space with fireballs.
It’s 5-5 in this game.
I think if you let Dudley stay on you. Which i hope you don’t it will be 6-4. Other than that i think if you can keep him out with your normals and you know when to use your fireballs, then its 6-4 in Rose’s favor.
Back to the Bison matchup. I had a tournament today with a Bison, and I was a little too close to losing than I would’ve liked to have been. s.hk was really, really good in this matchup. If you watch his scissor kicks and throw out a s.hk if he’s spaced at the tip of it after he does a scissor kick, it should stuff mostly everything he does. That and meaty cr.lk was all I really had going for me.
I do have some problems though. I couldn’t… do anything. The only time I felt like I could actually play my game and not Bison’s game was when I had him knocked down and he had no meter. I don’t remember if I tried s.hk, but I didn’t feel like I could punish it properly. That and when I went for a crossup on his wakeup he would EX head stomp on wakeup to get himself out. Is there anything Rose can do about that?
My game plan was basically to poke with s.hk a fucking LOT, pressure his wakeup when he has no meter, bait out psycho crusher by stopping after cr.lp,lk and back the fuck away when he has meter and I have the life lead. I’m pretty sure a few rounds ended with a time out.
The matchup felt ridiculous, honestly. I don’t know if I’m just clueless or if that’s how it really needs to be played. I felt very low on offensive options the entire match. I play very often with the Bison player so I’m sure he knows the matchup quite well. I could tell he was looking for the cr.lp,lk,mp string to psycho crusher through. Sucks that I couldn’t actually do it until he used all his meter.
What about c.mp and s.hk though? Once Dudley gets in, you can say it’s 6-4, but that’s like any other match-up when she gets pressured. I’ve played a good amount of Dudley players in AE, and the match-up doesn’t feel bad at all.
you have no idea
But I do.
well rose is cheap
if she wasnt cheap it’d e in dudley’s favor
Precisely.
Not gonna lie, had a 3-4 hour-ish session today with some really good players. Learned a LOT about the Yun, Cammy, Yang, Fei, Bison matchups( especially the last 2). Since you need more Bison help, i’ll give you some more pointers i picked up today. These topics will be more on things that I felt were useful.
-**Meter management is essential. ** If you lost round one, try to win round two w/o there being THAT much of a meter discrepancy. It’s good that you know how to hit confirm into super. See if you can win the round w/o having to do that. Going into the last round w/o meter against a bison w/ 3 bars is a death wish. Good luck w/ that uphill climb. Try to always have meter to SCARE him into thinking you will EX through your unsafe spirals.
-Think about how you want to end your blockstrings. He can punish all untrue blockstrings so pay attention to his meter, your health, his health, and where you are on the screen. Sometimes it’s just better to end w/ a cr. strong and bait stuff out. Sometimes you need to gain space so use EX FIREBALL to push them back or just plain fireball to push them back. Sometimes a tickthrow is needed.
-**Pay attention to his charge and space yourself accordingly. ** If he’s holding down-back, more than likely he’s looking to punish your slide or spiral. And he’s probably spaced so that if you do try to slide/spiral/fireball, you’ll either whiff or get punished. So what can you do? Move forward while blocking. Reposition yourself so your moves hit at the tip once more. That’ll force him to either reposition himself or try to punish the fact that your holding forward. That mean’s he’s going to lose charge. This will lead into a spacing, footsies, and zoning war.
-Tick throws own. Charge characters don’t have the option of holding forward while teching. This is an invaluable tool that players take for granted. Holding forward while teching is a good way to punish frame traps, force throws/techs, avoid being thrown because your limbs stick out, and is just a good way to tech relatively safely. That means tick throws and weaving is a good way to dodge techs that OS cr.strong/forward and then throw afterwards. It’ll be difficult for him to give up his charge to try to stand tech so he has to either commit to an EX PSCHOCRUSHER or stick with delaying his crouch tech.
Thanks for the information!
Honestly, meter wasn’t a factor for me. I ended most of the rounds with lots of meter. I tried EX spiraling through his pressure strings and usually ended up getting stuffed if it wasn’t a plain old block string with the usual Bison frametraps. I never really felt the need to use EX sparks either. I have no idea how you need to utilize sparks in this match. I usually just ditch them because of his stupid headstomp punishing them. Never considered the unsafe spiral->ex spiral frame trap though. I stopped using that gimmick once people started sniffing it out of me, but I guess I’ll throw it out there for characters who can punish blocked spirals easily.
As for block strings, this guy wasn’t trying to nail the cr.mp->spiral block string. He was going for the cr.lk,mp string. Every time I got in and he had meter I had to do a quick true block string and let him psycho crusher through it and just wait for him to run out of meter before actually putting up an actual offense.
Aye aye on the charge. That was one thing I wasn’t really doing. I usually just turtled and wait for him to put himself in the situation where I could tap him with Rose’s toes.
I’m not sure what you mean by holding forward while teching/weaving. Could you explain this?
Let’s say Bison as everyone is speaking of the bison matchup …
Bison match-up it is.
In regards to the Rose vs. Dudley match-up: I do have some idea, because I’ve played against decent Dudley players.
Why would you go for cr.lk > mp? I always either end with spiral, fireball, ex fireball, or cr.mp whether on hit or block.
EX SPARKS or just SPARKS in general are REALLY REALLY helpful when you need to gain space. If you’re in the corner and lucky enough to get off a cr. mp, follow through with EX FIREBALL. It’s a true blockstring AND it pushes back while giving you frame advantage. If you don’t have meter, follow through with a fireball instead.
WAKEUP
What good players generally do is stand OUTSIDE of throw range, delay their throws, and grab your crouchtech/standtech. When you crouch/stand tech, your grabboxes move forward just enough for them to grab you when they would normally just whiff if you pressed nothing. That’s why a lot of players hold forward and press throw. In high level play, whether you crouch tech or stand tech, it’s still an opening. Crouch teching might give off the illusion of being safer, but it’ll still go punished in high level play. That’s why it’s better to just commit to a throw and hold forward and press tech. That way it forces them to either eat a throw if they try to delay their throws or it forces them to tech. It also helps you avoid getting your limbs thrown. I’ve learned to not rely on only one method of teching and adjust accordingly.
Secondly, what i mean by weaving is that if you know they like to cr.tech, you can walk back just outside the range of the cr. normals and walk back in as the normals are recovering. If they’re only using lp+lk, stand outside of the cr. lk. If they tech with lp+lk+mk, then walk back just outside of cr. mk range and walk in RIGHT as you see the animation. That way, your matching your timing with their recovery frames and your essentially throwing their recovery frames. It takes a LOT of practice and guts, but if you get it down, that’s another tick throw timing you have down. It’s pretty risky though.
Watch how luffy walks forward right as he sees the tech OS cr. strong? It happens around 2:28-2:31 i think.
I meant cr.mp. Psycho crusher goes through cr.lk -> cr.mp, right? I tend to get hit out of it a lot. Though I do go for cr.lk,st.mp as a frame trap sometimes.
Thanks for the throw information. I knew about the weaving technique, but didn’t know that it actually had a name. Never actually tried it, though. I probably should. I didn’t know about holding forward and teching, though. Interesting.
That wasn’t him baiting out a crouch tech or a stand tech; that was Luffy respecting Yun’s up kicks and such. >.>
I was giving an example of how you can weave to catch normals. Secondly, i think by spacing himself there, he was looking to do both. Luffy was looking to bait out the upkick AND catch the crouch normal. I wouldn’t think the Yun would choose to upkick considering after the forward dash Rose backed up a LOT.
Rose doesn’t have a lot of good frame traps off of normals blockstrings. Her frame traps revolve around meaty wakeup normals and tick throws. TO ME, her tick throwing abilities are frame traps. If you knew how to use EVERY SINGLE one of rose’s tick throws, you could probably beat most mid level players. For example, this is one that I’ve been using recently and is definitely a keeper in my bag of tricks.
This HAS to be tight otherwise it won’t hit on the first frame.
forward throw > slide > throw.
forward throw > slide > cr. short > throw
forward throw > slide > cr. short > cr. short > throw
Just off slide > throw and slide > cr. short you have a fifty fifty mixup, assuming of course they don’t reversal. If they do, you have to switch out slide > cr. short w/ slide > block/bdash.
cr. lk -> cr. mp is a true blockstring, albeit a one frame link. You should definitely practice that link. Just being able to get that down makes a HUGE difference. My game upped so many levels once i got that link down. The difference between finishing the combo and doing 170ish damage vs eating a combo/reversal back is about 300 in damage. Essentially, you dropping that link costed you 300 damage o.0 .
I don’t think these things actually have names. And if they do, be damned if i knew them. I’m just making shit up and using terms I feel comfortable with( e.g. neutral game).
I mean that Yun was antsy and I couldn’t even tell if it was a jab or a strong lolol.
It was an unnecessary crouch tech on his part; he was not close enough to simply grab or beat Yun’s backdash (just eying the space); backing up and moving forward is pretty bad mid screen because they can get away by different means; if he had delayed up kicked, he would’ve gotten beat out; dive kicks, backdash, anything else.
You’re just giving up space. It work out in Luffy’s favor because he saw that the Yun was antsy and pretty panicky; but you shouldn’t ever give space to a good player.
If anything; if you see a crouch tech or a grab, simply empty jump and do a st. mk; it beats out backdash, the two techs, and many other options; it loses to the same options as a regular throw :D!
Well, I think that even if he was backing up, Yun was still in footsies range. If yun bdashed, YUN would be the one giving up space. Luffy delayed it well long past the reversal window AND the delay DP window. He wasn’t so much giving up space as he was spacing himself to punish ANYTHING yun tried to do. At that range, any cr. normal would have gotten punished by st. roundhouse, st. forward, cr. strong. This is of course just my personal commentary and only luffy can tell us for a FACT what he was thinking when he was playing.
I don’t like jumping with rose because against character with DP reversals. She’s way too floaty and it’s not worth the risk. Unless it’s to air-to-air them, i’d rather just stay grounded.
Secondly, you may not know it and unless someone proves me otherwise, I’m going to say Yun has the BIGGEST grabboxes+hitboxes when crouching. Seriously anton, go into the training room and have yun crouch and test how far you can throw him from. If you’re not amazed, I’d call you a liar straight up. Even though Rose was a mile away, I’m pretty sure yun could still be thrown in that video.
Jumping against DP characters is good; it’s a 50/50 guess in your favor. If you’re mistiming your jumped and get DP’d out of it; it’s not Rose’s problem, it’s yours; you would also be missing your safe cross up jump.
Rose wants to be close to Yun in this match; Yun builds way too much meter far; it’s okay for him to lose space even then because it’s so easy to get in on Rose anyway.
And yes, I tested out and training mode just right now; I made it so Yun cr. lp whiff and then I still have to take steps forward to hit.
I’m not amazed, call me a liar.
You seem to be making the misconception of Rose being a gimmick character; judging by your posts.
You take safe precautions on everything and you take orthodox risks. Your choice for everything.
Trying to beat a crouch tech and stand tech by grabbing it means you have to be psychic; if he backdashed, you’re giving up your ideal space. Luffy played it out right by guessing right, but what if he backdashed? You don’t know if they’re going to crouch tech or stand tech; especially in that range where the grab would not hit whatsoever.
st. mk is better.
I was talking about jumping at neutral position. If you’re talking about wakeup then of course I always go for the crossup j. mk. It catches bdashes and beats any non-3 frame DP, not to mentions it’s really ambiguous. Unless they have a good reversal, I always test the water by doing the crossup j.mk after a spiral.
Even as a solid character with zoning and footsies, there are plenty of other characters that do what she does BETTER. She does have a couple of things that make her stick out, but nothing stellar. To me, she’s good, not great or awesome. I won’t deny that I use her in a pretty gimmicky fashion. Just my personal preference.
I don’t have to be a psychic, I just have to adjust according to their tech timing. Not everybody techs the same way. If they stand tech and I delay too much, I get owned. If they reversal and I don’t delay anything, I get ownt. If I use the safe option, it’s easy for people to simply delay tech my throws. I tend to pick my spots when I do stand right in front of them to do anything risky and only after confirming how they play after the first round.
Finally, like I said, I don’t mind the bdash. Giving up space is their choice. I use U2 so any opportunity I get to push them into the corner, I take. If they want to make it easier, it’s fine by me.
It’s agreed that we have different playstyles because of our different experiences and different sparring partners.