SSF4 AE Rose Match-up Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
181

Well, Rose excels mostly as straight up fundamentals, it’s the way she is designed. That’s why it is so easy to see if a Rose player has improved or not; you can see it from how they used to play compared to how they play now; how the solid the play is. Rose is so linear for that exact reason.

And just for future reference; your j. mk can be used as a safe cross-up that makes 3f DP’s auto-correct the wrong way; >.>

But to each his own, I guess.

(I blow up in the Rose mirror; it’s my best match up. That’s just off the knowledge that I know about the character and my fundamentally based game. I know her gimmicks; her gimmicks aren’t good, they won’t work on someone who obviously knows them. Ask a lot of people here in the forum how I am in the Rose mirror; it’s tough for them to pinpoint what they are better at when it comes to the mirror. They’re a rushdown player; I do it onto par, they are a zoning player, I do it onto par. It’s just an extreme case of knowing what your character is capable of and what ranges you want to keep her at. Most of her gimmicks leave her unsafe; I know what they are, don’t worry. It’s just kept so she stays out of the corner all while staying at her ideal range.)

I am in no way saying that you should STOP using your gimmicks; I’m just saying when you’re talking about Rose, you don’t say she’s a gimmick character; she’s not that type of character. I was appalled that you said Oni was ALMOST as gimmicky as Rose. I actually laughed and my eyes bulged. It’s not true :/. Oni is a gimmick character; that’s his game, he’s like El-Fuerte. Rose, she’s just essentially a palette circle swap of Chun Li - a character that plays on fundamentals as well.

182

Really? I find her close up frame traps to be really good. :confused: Combined with her tick throw game, yeah, of course, but she has lots of good frame traps and counter-hit setups. Even during a normal blockstring. Thanks for the slide shenanigans. I’ll try it out.

Is it really? I actually tested whether I was just missing my links a lot or if psycho crusher really does go through that string, and I was able to go through it every time. I don’t think it was a missed link, either. I let the string hit me and it combo’d fully. I have the link down about 80% too.

183

cr. short -> cr. strong isn’t a true blockstring; you get dp’d in between, and frame data tells you that it is obviously not a true blockstring.The only time it is a true block string is that if you do a meaty last active frame crouching short that leaves you into +4 :/.

Rose’s frame traps are beyond good up close; she has moves that make low attacks completely whiff. Main use for frame traps is to blow up crouch techs in this game. …

That’s the definition of a frame trap in this game; I don’t get where you’re getting that her throw is a frame trap. I really don’t.

It seems as if you’d rather theory fight to beat the “x”-level players rather than the bigger picture. The point of theory fighting is to know the general way to fight a match; afterwards it’s up to the person controlling the character to play out.

Throws are REALLY REALLY REALLY bad in this game. In fact; if throws didn’t leave your opponent at a hard knockdown state; no one would use their throw.

A teched-tick throw makes you lose your momentum; you can’t lose your momentum, you HAVE to be able to control the pace of the match. You have to mix up it up with her frame traps; it’s how it works; instill fear so they don’t crouch tech and you can do your throws.

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I thought the by the book definition of a frame trap is a move that seems to leave a gap but in actuality, you were in positive frames giving the opponent the illusion they can press buttons, which is why cody is a frame trap beast. So many of his normals leaves in at a frame advantage that my friends joke about how he can press anything into anything. In that aspect, you can say Rose doesn’t really have frame traps outside meaty oki situations. Even calling cr. strong > spiral > cr. strong a frametrap is kind of pushing it since the the spiral USUALLY left you in a negative frame position. It was just a frame trap because of the position of the hitboxes and the spacing spiral left you at afterwards. That is unless you hit the heavy spiral at the tip. Then, it’s a real frame trap.

If the ryu is good, he can always auto-correct his DP. That’s why you can’t safe jump ryu. It’s just the timing is hard so a lot of people miss it causing them to whiff.

I always thought throws in this game were better compared to most sf iterations. The window for throwing is pretty big and making tick throws along with frame traps together really good.

You do know a lot of players don’t tech in some situations and just reversal during those frame traps right? Why guess on the throw or normal when a DP beats both. With yun, at worse you’re at the other side of the screen.

I won’t deny that I theory fight a lot, but that’s the whole point of these forums. That and to gain more knowledge.

The hard knockdown is EXACTLY why I use the throw so much. It puts them into another guessing game in Rose’s favor. You get a free safe jump or meaty mixup situation depending on which throw you used.

I call Rose gimmicky exactly because she’s so similar to Chun. The problem is, Chun does most of what Rose does better. Chun has better normals, a safer fireball zoning game, better dashes, and is more solid IMO. Even in Super, she was better than Rose in the tier lists. If B does everything A does a little better, what sets A apart? In super it was Rose’s U2. Now, that ultra is relegated to shenanigans and corner pressure.

This is just my take on it, but if you were to take two people who were EQUALLY skilled at footsies/spacing/etc, and gave one Rose and the other Chun/Bison/Balrog , the latter would do better in a footsies battle. That’s just because those characters have better normals overall and are working with better tools.

@trike
Yea your right. Forgot for a moment that cr.short is +1/+4 and thought it links to other normals. Guess it’s because i’m so used to baiting stuff out and leaving gaps along while mixing up my tick throws. If they like to reversal out, all you can do is bait and punish.

Let’s get back to more matchup questions…

185

What separates Rose and Chun Li is that Chun Li is mostly better at everything; but Rose has better frame traps.

Frame traps are counter hit setups; for example, you do a move that leaves you at +frames, (cr. short +1) or @ 0 or even at -1 on block; you walkforward and you do a sc. mk; that’s a frame trap because it would beat his crouch tech with a counter hit or most other moves that he would throw out.

No, even if the Ryu is Daigo he cannot always autocorrect my safe cross up set up; it’s the whole damn point of my safe cross-up set up; it will ALWAYS whiff; forcing him to block. I guess that’s the next thing I’m gonna have to make a video of :/.

There is no way you can be equal in footsies and spacing; even in theory. Everyone can have a decent spacing + footsies game - but theories can’t tell when someone would press a button; you can only say what normals beats out what other normals.

I’m a big fan of jab jab short end blockstring, lunge forward, block and bait myself; but I’m not gonna rely on it, I’m most likely going to give up a lot of my space; that’s the one thing I always do, I always always look for the correct space that I want to be at; sometimes right next to you, sometimes far, sometimes just in the right footsies range.

You have to learn your safe cross-up setups, you don’t know them ;(.

186

so what are some helpful frame traps then? D:

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The ones I use right now are:

cr.lk,cr.hp
cr.lp,cr.mp
cr.lk,s.mp
s.mp,cr.mp

At least I think they’re frame traps.

There’s tons and tons of ways to work them into blockstrings. There’s also some fancy ones with sparks in the corner that I haven’t really tested out.

st.mk also goes over most crouching kicks, so you can pretty much just throw that out whenever.

188

Their dive kick is not as bad as Rufus’; Rufus’ is harder to deal with.

The frame traps I use? I go for cr. short, sc. forward to blow up crouch techs; slide cr. strong or slide cr. short to blow up general button presses; same with the spiral cr. strong spiral frame traps that infinitely don’t end.

Rose has MANY frame traps; I use more than those, but those are just examples. The definition of a frame trap is simply put; giving enough time for your opponent to throw out a move so you can get a counter hit; a window frame. (This one doesn’t include that frames of the active hitboxes; but hitboxes are all accounted for within frame traps; they are just as important as frames.)

Otherwise; if you have moves that give you enough frame advantage on block;

You know; not to be mean or anything; but I’d rather teach Rose specific stuff rather than teaching basic game mechanics that are generally fighting games and not even specific SF4.

189

Mash jab until stops working iunno. That matchup is retarded, you have to be very proactive in your defense and movement because if you sit there and start blocking you’ll forget about the command grab.

190

Yun makes you take an ungodly amount of risks that are in his favor :/.

191

Pretty much this. I usually like to do cr. jab after a dive kick, but it can trade, be in your favor, or in his favor. It all depends on how low he hits you.

192

I played chun previously and just started playing rose. I was curious what some safe jump setups are as I feel they are integral for keeping on pressure.

193

Idk during the Yun match up i try to stay in the mid range with him and just block until he does something unsafe or i counter hit him. Idk what normals are better than his atm.

What i normally do during the match is when i have u1 half full or full i throw a fire ball or 2 from full screen to bait out a palm so i can punish it with u1.

194

Check the Yun match-up details on the front page if you haven’t already, that should help.

195

Ok now i know which normals i should be using for that match up. i don’t know if its helpful but it does also limit how many palms yun can use to build meter

196

I Love this thread. Its so helpful. Ive been using Rose for one week. My Whole game has improved Dramatically Thanks To You guys On the Zangief and Twins Matchups. Special Thanks to Fillipino Man and sksksksksk.
I Follow you guys and try to pick up some shit when you two post replays and ive Learned alot.

197

Just checking in.

But Rose does have some pretty nice frame traps.

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I’m glad the match-up information has helped a bunch! I’ll be updating the front page again with the Bison match-up soon, once we get more inputs. I’ll do a write-up tomorrow.

199

The bison matchup just got really weird. Hugo101’s rushdown bison just confused the fuck out of me. Man this is like picking your poison. Against both turtle and rushdown bison, it doesn’t pay to press buttons. But especially against rushdown bisons, you can’t let him maul on you. His pressure is like yun in the sense that it just pushes you into the corner before you know it. You just have to take a risk and gamble with the EX spiral smartly. Also pay attention to meter because aggressive bisons definitely like to use meter whenever they can to punish your shit and push you into the corner, where you’re free. As Rose in AE, you HAVE to avoid the corner. Use EX FIREBALL to regain ground and push your way out when you’re near the corner.

200

Or do a st. mk if you predict that he’s gonna do a crouch short; even if you are in the corner.

Bison’s rushdown isn’t as good in AE anymore; so the U2 nerf hadn’t affected the matchup too terribly; in fact, it mostly got easier because Bison got a nerf on his U2 which completely stopped Rose’s fireball game in the first place.

Yun is harder; you can take a few chips; but if someone like Yun blows up your crouch tech, you might as well say sayonara.

And you’ve always had to avoid the corner, it’s never a good spot to deal with; but you’re Rose you’re always going to end there. ALWAYS. Learn to fight your way out.