thanks, then she would make a better 2nd for Bison’s bad MUs… because honda and guile are pretty much unwinnable still even with their their nerfs, same for Juri.
@sniperowl
All those matches require you to be really solid with rose. She is in essence a heavy fundamental character.
Against Gief, you have the advantage throughout the match UNTIL he pushes you to the corner (like everyone else in the matchup). But the difference is Rose is in the select group with ASS options to switch positions.
Honda Rose wasn’t truly in Rose’s favor until AE when his damage got toned down. Super Honda’s weren’t afraid of Rose because they knew that one combo would just about even up the matchup.
Guile Rose is in Rose’s favor slightly. She has the tools but they’re soooo hard to use. Good players who know how to throw fireballs ( yes you have to actually KNOW how to do this correctly) will vary the speed and the onus is on Rose to hit the timing for the reflects. Once she misses Guile’s job is done and he can zone her out by toning down his fireballs.
You have to play good Guiles and of course they will very speed, but that’s why you react to it. Your sparks build more meter and can actually be used to generate good fireball games against guile.
You win when you get the health lead, just as he wins when he gets the health lead.
Honda Rose I’ll say is even just because of Honda’s damage.
I would say 6-4 in both games.
I’ll say even definitely in AE because Rose’s fireball sucks and Honda’s U1 goes through it free ;(.
Zangief can’t really offer the same knockdown situations he did before; which is why it’s even.
here’s a couple of gief notes:
-max range short sprialss are good in this match since if you walk backwards his spd whiffs. not sure about u1 though.
-s.fp does hit most of his air attacks at a distance but alot of time his j.fp will beat it. in that situation try using slide to beat it. if he decides to empty jump to bait you, start with s.fp again.
-gief’s wakeups are worse than abel’s really. a meaty sc.mk beats spd and you can throw him out of green hand . sc.mk also stuffs lariat . watch for backdashes into spd though.
I’ll update the front page once again with the Zangief match-up either tomorrow or Saturday. If anyone has any lasting inputs on the match-up, please post.
Maybe we should list the options Rose has to counter/defend Green hands. I know that I just feel free against green hands.
Even when the green hand whiff, I am not often able to punish because first I am not sure that it whill whiff. So I choose to block. When I see that it’s not blocked, I usually do not have enough time to react and I often eat a 360. So I am ending Backdashing as soon as I see a green hand coming which is not a good option as well because then I end up in the corner…>:(
The only viable option I have succeess with is U1 in reaction.
So it will be nice to know what move can break Green hands?
What move to do after a blocked green hand ?
CL.mk would be the best bet as it will make any throw whiff especially if Zangi has U1. But then if he choose to do a combo you end up eating a new green hand.
If you backdash and he chooses the Combo, you eat an OS with C.HK and a knockdown…
Or maybe if we use Cl.MK Karathrow ? It should make any throws attempt whiff while countering Zangi other moves?
What do you think ?
I agree that a meaty cl.MP is a good for pressure at Zangi’s wake up. I dot not remember to have been punished for that except if I mistimed it.Do you know any setup for that ?
After a blocked Green Hand, I wouldn’t really backdash. I would either do jump back fierce, or nj. fierce. Of course if he catches on, you can take advantage of that and either stand there and AA him, or dash under. You have to watch out for U2.
Just played Hatrify, very solid Dee-Jay player. I’m not sure if this match-up is a 5-5, or 6-4 for Dee-Jay.
Edit: I also updated the Zangief match-up information, so check that out ;).
@sksksk
Did you figure out slide > spirals the hard way like me? I’d tried everything from spacing my spirals better to reaction ex spirals and they all failed miserably.
In the Dee-Jay match-up, or in general?
deejay matchup of course
Looks good 
Just a last comment on Zangi. I think I have beaten lariat with juming LK when the LK hits Zangief on top of his head? Did that ever happen to you or does it just means that the lariat was badly mistimed?
So is Dee-Jay next ?
Shinkuu said sc.mk beats lariat on zangief’s wakup- I don’t think that’s correct, unless there’s some trick to it?
I do think you should abuse zangief on wakeup though. The way I see it:
sc.mk beats throws/SPD, loses to ex green hand and lariat
throws beat lariat and all green hands, loses to SPD
neutral jump beats reversal lariat and SPDs, escapes ex green hand, but loses to block (which usually turns into a late lariat or heatbutt from him).
Backdashes do escape, but maybe a nj.fk would hit him before he recovers depending on when you jumped.
Regarding Dee Jay:
Once he gets in footsie range, I have a hard time keep out constant short jump low kicks, so advice against that would be good. I can usually zone him out well though- mp.reflect keeps him from following his jab maxouts and cr FP I think works against all his regular jump ins. If I lose it is usually when he reads pokes and does ex sobats through them, so maybe play lame and don’t throw out moves as much.
thanks for checking on lariat. wasnt able to comfirm that when i posted it. 
…whats all the problems with dj these days. he doesnt seem much different than in super, just c.fp his knees and bait short dread kicks while poking him
I still find it hilarious that I can throw all of zangief’s wakeup options besides ultra!
I fixed that part, thanks for the update.
I think more people have voiced trouble in the Dee-Jay match-up because of two reasons.
- He’s a character that’s been certainly used more often in AE compared to Super, so not many people may have experience against him in the first place.
- He received numerous buffs, and many may be unfamiliar with what those are, and how they have influenced the match-up in AE.
For Zangief though; can’t you do the st. mk kara cancel into grab to beat out every option (lariat, green hand, ultra, spd); but you lose to backdash if you don’t backdash right away? >.>
I thought about that- it would definitely be interesting to test. I know that when trying to kara cl.mk on wakeup before against abel for example, I had some spotty luck with beating EX TT. Sometimes I’d see the yellow flash and I would throw them, but sometimes I would just eat it. I assumed it was because I messed up the kara, but you might have to make sure that you don’t do it too early, so your mk is already over before they’re even up.
So it might work if you’re frame perfect? Or maybe in the case you did it perfectly to beat SPD/U1, it would be too slow to throw lariat? I’ll go look at the startup frames for that now.
EDIT: both lariats have 4f startup so maybe this would work?
Tested cl.mk kara throw against Zangief wakeup. I was able to get a recording to dodge a reversal super and ultra- in these cases the cl.mk came out and hit him, but the same recording lost to a reversal regular SPD and EX. It beat green hand and lariats with a throw as expected. I was also able to delay the ultra and super (by 1 frame I guess) so they weren’t reversal, and grab her out of the beginning of her throw animation.
So in other words, its not a completely safe setup and due to being pretty strict timing, would be difficult to get 100% of the time anyway, probably not good to recommend.
I also tested cl.mk against lariat with different timings- it either straight up lost or traded, both bad news. So the options I listed before are probably about all for his wakeup.
@Darmonde : Thanks for the testing. But I do not understand why meaty CL.Mk would loose to lariat!! Is it invincible at startup ?
So Cl.MK seems to be the best option as it stuffs all throw attempts. I do not see much Zangief doing Lariat on wakeup. Seems a lot like a bet IMO. Or maybe if he cancel it. LOL: it means that VS Rose, Lariat cancel will be Zangi best wakeup option ^^. In fact, he could do smthg like Lariat Cancel Back dash into Spd or Ultra1 … Seems nasty