SSF4 AE Rose Match-up Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
101

I’ll update the first post with Yang a bit later. If anyone has anything else to add, let me know, and I’ll edit it as necessary.

As for Rose vs. Dee-Jay, I do think the match-up has gotten a bit more difficult for Rose due to Dee-Jay’s general buffs.

Based on my little experience with the match-up:

-You never want to jump at Dee-Jay, because he can just anti-air you at ease with his upkicks.
-He can use EX Sobat through your untrue c.mp xx Spiral blockstring.
-Reflecting can be a bit tricky because the speed greatly varies between versions of his projectiles.
-Slide does beat Sobat.
-c.MK makes his upkicks whiff on wake-up (I think I saw this happen, but I could be wrong)

102

Rose builds meter so fast still in this game from what you are normally doing; especially that you will seldom throw fireballs at Yang, so if you have your super, that’s 1/3rd of Yang’s health off of anything.

And since Yang’s dive kick has a restriction, if you can do it on reaction, feel free, because it’s not good for a Yang to jump up baiting the ultra.

The thing about Yang’s ultra 2 and punishing with U1 is that you can just block the whole animation. It has no invincibility, so I imagine that U1 would beat it out. Yang’s U2 is not their ultra of choice.

It definitely beats out all roll kicks and punishes all of them on block >.>

103

Why does yun U2 go right through the shamwow?

104

I just updated the first post with some Rose vs. Yang match-up information, although it’s not completely polished yet. There will be some edits that I will finish making tomorrow.

105

Update:

I finished updating the Rose vs. Yang match-up. Please take a look at it, and tell me if I need to add in or change any more points. If it’s all good, we can move on to the next match-up to discuss. Since Yun and Yang are really the troublesome characters in AE, I guess it’s a toss-up. We could do Zangief, if anyone has trouble with that match-up.

106

Zangief matchup would be nice.

107

Zangief:

Is he far away?

Soul spark.

Is he close?

Sweep.

Is he jumping at you with his flying body attack?

Standing Fierce.

Can’t escape stupid bodyslam vortex?

Ex Soul Throw

108

Zangief Matchup Info

Midscreen - your standing roundhouse is a brilliant poke it’s quick and sometimes unsuspecting, it kills alot of greenhands startup etc
Only thing be careful that if they are expecting it, you can be spd’s from half a screen… sigh

His standing strong kills most of your standing moves, only thing worth counter poking with is standing fierce
As far as lows go, you should only go for a sweep as cr.mk can get spd as the recovery of the standing strong is quick

Sweep his donkey kick, i think his standing HK…but be careful as they use that as a spd setup

Is he jumping forward with his long range punch, at the right range use standing fierce to stuff it clean

Usually after taking a ex green hand it’s a guess, jumping & backdashing may not be a good idea with u2 but If they don’t have it stocked, jump back fierce
works well or cl.st.mk and a backdash can be swept by the active frames on his sweep. If he IS using ultra 2… well GUESS… my best bet would be EX soul spiral as it cannot be throw and isn’t considered airbourne so U2 would just whiff but you either have to train them before they get u2 stocked or have bars handy.

Don’t use blockstrings or toss our your chainable ones and then neutral jump. lk~mp makes no sense as you will die for it, I usually use jumping fierce, crouching fierce, reflect for some pushback but with some improved spd range i gotta test if it still moves you out of range.

I don’t believe in using soul throw to escape vortex because a splash especially on crossup can be option selected with green hand and you end up taking a fierce spd or a ultra 1…

You can anti air all his jump in’s with your crouching fierce even from far just remember if you miss you will be open for a lot of damage

His lariat can be stuffed with forward HK, standing fierce, sweep, slide {not advised}, jumping fierce… AND my personal favorite, U1 if you time it that you pull it out halfway through a lariat you can easily nab him during the active frames of your ultra

All greenhands on block can be thrown without an issue and most can be mp~spiral .

Funny note, you can walk right up to geif and grab him on his wakeup and the only thing that would beat you is his U1, i have grabbed ppl out of lariet on wakeup, spd, ex spd, green hand, ex green hand…

When going air to air with gief an early jumping fierce usually wins although he has some interesting options if the players know their move set…
Never challenge the headbutt, the only time i really beat the headbutt was a split second EX soul spiral

Ummm… I think that is all I got for now, I was playing this matchup since vanilla

109

Here are my inputs on the Zangief match-up:

General Information:

This is a match-up where it can really go either way, but Rose cannot afford to be knocked down, because he can take a huge chunk of your life in a hurry with his SPD mix-ups. She has two approaches to playing this match-up (in my opinion, as a Rose player, you should be doing both throughout the match):

-Playing the fireball game safely from a distance.
-Out-poking him with normals within footsies range.

Normals:

-s.FP, c.FP, and F+HK (from an appropriate distance), are all great anti-airs against him.
-c.MK, and s.FK are great, safe poking normals with really good range.
-nj.FP has a great surrounding hitbox, and will stuff his Lariat, and most of his other jumping normals as well.
-c.MP is pretty useful in this match-up, but I’m not too sure if Zangief can SPD and punish it since it’s -3 on block.
-Use slide sparingly in this match-up; if you don’t space it too well, you will eat a SPD.
-cl.MK is a great command throw bait.

Specials:

-In this match-up, you’ll mostly want to use Sparks instead of Spirals.
-Any blocked Spiral means an easy SPD punish, no matter how spaced it is. You should really only use Spiral as part of a punish.
-When pressuring him, mostly go for Spark strings.
-EX ST is useful for punishing badly mistimed jumps or cross-ups.

How Zangief’s specific AE changes influences the match-up in AE:

-With an increased jab SPD range, this makes it a bit more dangerous for Rose to wander into footsies range, as she can be caught from a further distance.
-With EX Green Hand not knocking down, this is a plus because any knockdown for Rose is really bad, especially against someone with a huge damage output like Zangief. However, this doesn’t mean you shouldn’t care after getting hit with EX Green Hand; he’s +1, so you will have to make guesses.
-With the change to his jump U2 arc, Rose has to be a bit more careful with jumping and backdashing. A lot of Zangief players like to do U2 after EX Green Hand, so watch for that set-up.

Preferred Ultra?

-I will say that U1 is definitely the way to go. It can really severely limit his options from full screen, and make him be a bit more wary with what he’s doing. See a whiffed SPD? See a whiffed Lariat? See a EX Green Hand coming? You can punish all of these with U1.
-Speaking of U2 however, I really don’t advise using it in this match-up. Reason being is because of the smaller hitbox on the orbs (which means you have to get relatively closer to Zangief, and it’s not really worth the risk), and the loss of start-up invincibility, making it useless against his cross-up splashes.

Closing thoughts:

-I really don’t think this match-up is bad for Rose, despite Zangief’s buffs.
-You really can’t be comfortable with any life lead, no matter how big it is, simply because one Ultra into one mix-up can mean death.
-Use footsies to your full advantage; make him play your game.

110

@zangief
If you space your fireball correctly, you can EX ST afterwards to catch him. You should mix up your blockstrings. This could be little things like ending with fireball instead of spiral when you space your cr. strong badly or adding an extra cr.jab to push him out safely just in case he’s mashing during your cr. jab > cr. short > spiral string. You have to really think a lot during this match which is not necessarily a bad thing. Spaced spirals and slides aren’t recommended unless you’re confident you can space them perfectly against the opponent. When he’s jumping at you be careful for his empty jump >> SPD after baiting your cr. fierce to whiff. Don’t give up too much space too fast because rose has no way out of the corner.

PS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeBQEIXFi1A The first 41 seconds looks like about 70 percent of the matches I lose. Backdash once during neutral game. Opponent rushes in + one combo. Rose is free in the corner. Tries to jump to reset situation before he sets up corner pressure. Death. Lesson: Don’t backdash too much in AE. This will absolutely KILL you against Zangief and good players alike.

111

LOL sksksksk… yours was just better written…

112

Next should be gouken or dhalsim… uuugggghhhhh

113

It should be added:
Normals: Close MK which is unthrowable. And leave you at 0 on block :slight_smile: So you can use Cl MK,C.lp etc… in order to regain space or as wake up pressure.
We should also point out that due to Zangief big hitbox, C.mp xx LK spiral will combo from max distance. No need to use EX spiral in Combo in this match-up.

114

Oh yes, can’t forget about cl.MK. I’ll add that in.

115

Thanks for the Zangief write ups - I seem to eat U1 a lot but since most players can’t do a standing 720 I need to pay attention to them buffering.

116

So my main is Bison and for some time I had Juri as my 2nd… but honestly it isn’t exactly working too well when it comes to covering my Bison’s bad MUs. Juri does good against Geif but Honda still lols @ her and Bison hates Honda too. How does Rose do against Honda? What about Chun? I think Rose does better than Juri against Chun. Rose is okay vs Gief right? She sure seems like it to me. And Rose can go toe to toe against Guile… I don’t like using Juri against him.

Do you guys think Rose would make a better 2nd than Juri for my Bison? I like her personality and character design too (also her voice actor doesn’t make me want to slit my wrists on either language.) Please let me know about those match ups Bison has problems with and if Rose would cover them better than Juri. Also I’d be maining Evil and Good Bison! lol!

Right now Rose is my 3rd but I’m seriously considering making her my 2nd.

Thanks in advance for input.

117

I really don’t think Rose would have a much easier time than Juri in all the match-ups you mentioned, which are close to 5-5 for both characters… i may be wrong though.
I still think that you’d better pick one of the two, stick to it and learn your f***** match-ups instead of having the “i would have beaten this guy if i had played with XXXX (insert random character)” mentality.

118

I mostly certainly don’t have that mentality and I somewhat resent that statement. I’m simply trying to confirm that Rose does better against Honda and Guile because I know for certain that Honda slaps Juri quite hard, and Guile is iffy. Rose has her own projectile and soul reflect for Guile, so I’m not understanding how she can NOT have it better against those two.

So basically your post wasn’t helpful at all. An explanation would be nice other than say something that doesn’t tell me anything.

edit: And yes, you are wrong with Juri. She does not have 5-5 with those characters I mentioned. They are worse and Honda is still probly 3:7 even after the AE changes. Only one she is good is Gief I would say 6:4

And finally, I’m considering dropping Juri because I’m sick of her. I just don’t have fun using her like I use to. I thought AE would be cool but she’s pretty much the same. I like mobile characters with good pokes (like Bison and Rose.) I want to make sure the character I pick up is going to be worth it. I’m having fun with Rose.

119

Not sure if everyone knows (just found out myself) - if you block Yun’s U1 you can block the first 3 hits then focus the 4th (up part) for a crumple.

120

Rose goes even with Gief, goes even, slightly in her favorish, against Honda, and Rose beats Guile.

It’s on you.