far standing forward is easier to space now since crouching yun has really bad hurtboxes. On counterhit you can combo into a crouch strong. It’s a one framer but the fact that the spacing is easier makes it sorta easier?
So… Which character is next. I haven’t been on the forum long but I’m kinda hoping being involved in the process of this match up thread will help me out with my weaker match ups. Yang? Oni?
I guess Yang, I’ll update the first post in a bit.
Rose vs. Yang is frustrating as well, considering I had nearly 20 matches with a Yang player just now. From my observations:
-Standing FP works well against far Dive Kicks, although you don’t want to abuse this move.
-Use s.MK to stuff Yang’s low short (I’m guessing a lot of Yang players like to use low short from my experience)
-Both slide and s.MK seem to stuff his Roll Kick.
-Frame trapping helps a lot, especially against those that like to just use short to hit you out of your pressure.
Edit: I updated the Rose vs. Yun match-up information on the first post, and it is in the spoiler located underneath Yun. Please read it, and let me know how it looks. I tried to make it as neat and informative as possible.
@yang matchup
-Rose doesn’t have a fireball again. It’s just that type of match.
-meaty crouch shorts are a lifesaver.
-I may be beating a dead horse, but the setup man. If you are able, practice it over and over. The fact that both yun and yang have such low hp means that after 1 bthrow (yes, just one bthrow) you can potentially deal 400 + damage. The onus is on you now to hit the timing though. If you hit it, i really doubt they’re going to able to block it. If you can make them block and not reversal, mix it up with throws. 400 damage. One throw.
-like sksksksksk mentioned, use s. MK; practice the counterhit link into cr. strong. You’ll definitely get the opportunity to use it unless the yang refuses to use one of his best crouch normals.
-everything applied to yun is applied to yang anti-divekick wise
The set-up isn’t worth it against Yun nor Yang tbh. It’s not worth them to not use brainless dive kicks from anywhere on the screen.
Rose v Yang
4-6 Yang
I. Normal gameplay; Importance of Normals
Normals to consider
[LIST]
[]close standing forward
[LIST]
[]important for your frame traps; but you can’t blow up his crouch tech; it whiffs, making it a less effective move; but can lead to other frame traps
[/LIST]
[]crouch fierce
[LIST]
[]your general anti-airs
[/LIST]
[/LIST]
Normals to focus on
*
*
[LIST]
[]far standing fierce
[/LIST]
[LIST=1]
[]Since Yang’s hitbox for his dive kick is also in front of his foot, far standing fierce will beat it out cleanly if spaced correctly. Be wary of how terrible our hitbox for this move is as well, it actually extends our hitbox forward even though it does not look like it.
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]crouching strong
[/LIST]
[LIST=1]
[]Just note I will put this for every match-up; extremely important. You confirm to it, it beats out a lot of Yang’s normals, but sometimes loses to his cr. short; which hitconfirms in to Rekkas; use wisely.
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]crouching roundhouse
[/LIST]
[LIST=1]
[]Yang will often be rushing you in. This will cause an important hard knockdown that will help you escape, cause pressure etc. Also, the pushback should make you safe from most punishes Yang will try.
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]slide
[/LIST]
[LIST=1]
[]Your main way of getting in. (Other than walking forward).
[]It will often beat his dives and many of his other normals, such as cr. short.
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]soul piede
[/LIST]
[LIST=1]
[]Will often be used to preemptively stop dives on their way up; it’s effective. I also don’t say Soul Piede is effective in many match ups.
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]crouching lights
[/LIST]
[LIST=1]
[]If you aren’t good at hitconfirming and linking, you better start getting better at your execution. You can punish obviously mistimed dive kicks using cr. lights.
[]cr. short can be used to bait out an ex teleport and then do another normal (sweep, crouch fierce) for a nice follow up into knockdown or just take teh damage.
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]far standing forward
[/LIST]
[LIST=1]
[]Rose benefits from this normal because it stuffs all lows.
[]It can also stuff not well thought out roll kicks, so it is fairly safe to throw out.
[]If counter hit, it is +6 - fairly easy to confirm cr. strong.
[/LIST]
Note
I’m a firm believer that you should use all your normals; just because I don’t list it, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t consider it. For example, far standing roundhouse is an incredible move. It should be used but I just haven’t seen the use for it as well as the other normals that I have used it.
II. Fucking specials, how do they work? ; Importance of specials.
[LEFT]- Spirals[/LEFT]
[LEFT]Use them, space them correctly, can be used as a reliable anti air.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]EX SPIRAL EX SPIRAL EX SPIRAL[/LEFT]
[LEFT]… Use it to end your combos, it’s a good use of meter and will lead to a knockdown (although not hard). if he decides not to tech, you can safe jump Yang’s DP; which leads to more knockdowns; etc.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]* If Yang has a U2, EX Spiral beats O/S U2, but it’s not a good option; unless of course you’re a dirty player and you’re looking at their hands while you’re playing an offline match (solid strategy :])[/LEFT]
[LEFT]- Sparks[/LEFT]
[LEFT]Refrain - rolling kick > sparks.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]EX Sparks should be used to end certain block strings. +0 is important; leads to more frame traps. Instead of wasting two meters on FADCing a spark; use 1; you get more chip that way.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]Sparking on Yang’s wake-up for chip is okay if you’re sure that you’re doing it that you can’t get punished with him doing a move on his wake up ;).[/LEFT]
[LEFT]- Soul Throw[/LEFT]
[LEFT]EX Soul Throw should be used to punish obvious bad safe jumps. 8 frames is a pushover; but it’s easy to see an obviously bad safe jump.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]Soul Throw can be used to beat Yang’s dive kick since it has a height restriction; it’s easier to see.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]Reflect should be used to solely to build meter from full screen; you’re gonna have to let Yang build his meter as well; but he isn’t as dangerous with his meter as Yun, so it’s nothing to worry about.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]III. Uses of Ultras and Super[/LEFT]
[LEFT]I like Super; it adds extra 300 damage (1/3rd of Twin’s health) to any combo; use it and save up for it…[/LEFT]
[LEFT]Ultra 1 - Uses of Illusion Spark[/LEFT]
[LEFT]It’s a punish ultra. It punishes many of Yang’s options, including a fully blocked mantis slash combination. It can go throw his untrue blockstrings (which I have to test, because I don’t know what they are, but I know every character has some). It punishes EX invincibility.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]******* It beats dive kicks*********
******* It punishes rolling kicks *******[/LEFT]
[LEFT]It protects you from getting chipped out by a full screen rolling kick; important because it usually kills when they want to chip you out with a rolling kick.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]Ultra 2 - Uses of Nerfed Orbs :D[/LEFT]
[LEFT]To chip out; to generate an offense.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]To try to use a gimmick to get massive damage.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]Verdict IMO: Ultra 1 (although U2 has uses, don’t worry :D)[/LEFT]
[LEFT]IV. Notes[/LEFT]
[LIST]
[]There isn’t much Rose can do about palm. 
[]Yang’s dive kick is better than Yun’s other than Yun has a lower height restriction (priority and frame was, Yang’s better :[).
[]Yang’s ultra’s are both good in this match, but most use U2; U2 cannot be safe jumped; be wary of that.
[]For Rose, Yang’s dive kick is actually the hardest to deal with, Yun just has the illusion of being a better pressure character.
[*]You’ll play it lame, you get the health lead and it’s a stare down.
[/LIST]
Eh, just a quick write up; if you have any questions for me just ask.
THX for your work,it’s very usefull…
ps:and i follow your Rose’s replay…she’s very impressive…
I forgot her Soul Pide against the twins, thx. I can use it against some jump happy yuns/yangs :>
Nice work btw, keep it going.
i keep hearing that slide is usable against dive kicks but i never see it. do they have to dive kick from a distance or is it good for close ones too?
I have had very mixed results with it. It generally gets me killed but if the tip of her foot hits the dive she wins.
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From my experience with slide interacting with dive kicks, it always seems to trade for the most part.
Anton: Thank you very much for your detailed analysis of the Rose vs. Yang match-up. I will edit the first post with that match-up information as soon as we spend a good amount of time discussing it.
Also, if anyone sees something I need to add for Rose vs. Yun, please let me know.
I really feel like against the twins U1 is the way to go. Like Anton said it shuts down so many options and it hits hard. It is a great way to make them scared.
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I think the layout of the first post is perfect sk, I like the fact you put in negative points as well.
I still can’t get myself to commit fully to U1, I think U2 is still really good for putting the breaks on. I don’t know if it’s just me but I find U1 a bit fickle at the best of times, it gets stuffed a bit too much. That’s probably just me being gash though.
Like has been discussed both have their merits. I like having the threat of 60% for a mistake. U2 gives you a way to slow their momentoum if they get started.
Same thoughts here. I mean i really SHOULD be using for certain matches i mentioned before (e.g. balrog, sagat, gief, hawk, etc) but i just want something solid. Something i know i will use for sure EVERY round. At the worse, i get 5-10 seconds to build meter lol. I just feel people are under-utilizing the 10 seconds of mental pressure that U2 possesses. Just walk in and out of his normal poking range for 5-6 seconds. Do so SAFELY (meaning you should be blocking more so than pushing forward). Then commit to either:
(a.) slide if they try to back and hitconfirm the orbs and slide into a combo, or finally
(b.) baiting out a crouching normal and st.Forward counterhit into a combo,
(c.) baiting out a tech and punishing with orbs,
(d.) throw them in between the orbs, this being much easier now due to the nature of the orb’s hitboxes.
This corner game in itself gives rose a whole new dimension. I typically don’t like to cr.strong spiral when you activate because you’re getting much value for your orbs IMO. You could probably do the same amount of chip damage were you to get in ONE extra normal poke in the footsies department ( st. roundhouse, st. forward, cr. fierce, etc). Unless you’re looking to chip to win. Then by all means.
For anyone that knew me from way back, I’ve always been a huge fan of the Illusion Spark, I’ve always hated Soul Satellites.
I can use Soul Satellite as well as the next guy, but my solidity with reactions allows me to use Illusion Spark. >.>
@filipinoman
Personal style and preference essentially.
Anyone got any advice for the Deejay matchup in AE? I barely fought any of them in SSF4 and I feel like he does pretty well against Rose in AE, maybe it’s just my inexperience in the MU though. He’s actually more annoying to fight than Guile for me right now lol.
Just found out something interesting. Mixing up between the three versions of the fireballs as an ANTI-AIR works really well against the twins. Their hurtboxes are so big that if they miss time the jump by just a bit, they’re eating a fireball. Switch off between strong and jab at first. Then throw in a fierce one if you think they’re really going to delay their divekicks.
Try to play the neutral game and zone him out while building meter. If you’re lucky enough to get him to throw the fireball, see how he reacts afterwards. If he follows it up and seems like he’s going to jump, **heavy reflect **is a good bet since it covers you pretty well both horizontally and laterally. If he’s looking to slide, **medium reflect **is your best bet while looking to **EX ST **since he’ll probably jump once he see’s the medium reflect. If he’s an idiot and doesn’t follow it up, lucky you. You get free meter. Once he gets within half screen stop throwing fireballs. His slide basically beats any sort of pressure you can do and if i remember correctly, at certain ranges even beats st. Forward. Shit if he’s looking out for it, he can just react to all versions of **spirals **and slide and it’ll win most of the time. Don’t try to cross him up. You’re better off just alternating between meaty cr. shorts or sc.strong and throw/delayed throws. And especially remember this is one of those matches where it’s not good to take the initiative. He has more answers to your move than you do his so it’s to your disadvantage to try to do too much.
TL;DR…Bait and punish.
Anton- thanks for the Yang write up. Some of the info is general, and not really matchup specific, but there are definitely good tips. Some points/questions:
I think cr fierce is in general a good tip for Rose, but bad advice for dive kick characters as an anti air. It turns into a high risk move because off the same jump, they could: 1) cross up dive which can win clean 2) beat the startup if they dive quickly, leading to combo 3) make it whiff, leaving Rose at huge negative frames.
You made special note that U1 beats dive kicks, but low dives kicks will let him block- don’t want people to think if they do it during the dive animation, its a guarantee. Cross up dive kicks are also a problem I think, especially since the HK dive kick can cross up (high) from a pretty good distance away.
EDIT: when I say cross up dive kick, I mean a dive kick that hits high and leaves them on the opposite side afterward.
Does U1 beat all rolls, during the roll animation? Including Yang U2? Or are there situations it will lose?
You say to save up for super, but give tons of examples of when you should use EX moves. I assume that you use EXs liberally and just use the super if you happen to have it?
For the DeeJay matchup, Slide might be useful to Rose.
I noticed that Rose’s Slide beats the rolling sobat .
A slide (you have to do it a little deep inside ) makes them whiff on D-JAY wake up. D-Jay will hop over you and then you can punish ( LK version at least )with C.mp,C.MK or C.HK. I dunno for EX rolling sobat.
It also beats (at least the LK) rolling sobat but the timing I think might be tricky.
The timing to slide under DJ Fireball are also much easier than again the shoto.
Apart from that the matchup is quite unknown for me as well.