I have nothing against tactical jumping, as sometimes it’s just the quickest way to move. And yes, sometimes people torll jumping will work because you just assume most players online have the common sense to not jump over and over. I played against an Oni that would only jump and try to cross me up with that command punch he has now…
he didn’t learn his lesson, even after the fifth soul throw in a row.
Twas a shame.
Since Yun has become the most popular character to discuss in terms of match-ups, let’s start with him.
Some things I think we should touch on:
-Match-up favor (is it 5-5, 6-4, etc), so we can identify what match-ups are good, bad, or neutral for her.
-What normals, we as Rose players, should mostly be using in this match-up.
-What moves we can use to beat out certain moves that Yun players do.
6-4 Yun at the least.
I stick with st. fierce, st. strong, cr. fierce and EX ST for divekicks.
Don’t st. roundhouse or cr. strong so much. I like to end blockstrings with ex. fireball more to push him out and give myself space since spirals leave you negative most of the time. You don’t want to be negative AND have him up close. Mix in St. forward with max range throws. His throwbox is further out making it easier to throw him when he crouches. Also try to get him into the corner and bait his fierce upkick. Then you can backdash and punish.
I agree with 6-4 for now at least. I don’t really have much to add, as I have very little offline Yun experience, but I’d say to use U1 for dive kicks, and that you CANNOT be backdash happy in this matchup. His lunge punch MURDERS it, and even if he guesses and throws out a random ex lunge and you’re not backdashing, he’s still +1 on block. That, and you will be put in the corner, which is the last place Rose wants to be against Yun. You have to play the match smart even if the Yun is playing stupidly, sadly.
I say Ultra 2 for Yun just for a way out of the corner. I often just cr.mp xx EX spark to push him back then activate to force my way out. Otherwise you’re sitting in the corner guessing until you’re dead.
I originally thought this match-up felt like a 7-3, but after getting a good amount of Yun experience, I’m going to say 6-4 as well.
I like using standing strong and fierce to beat out far dive kicks. Watch out if you’re planning on doing her c.mp xx Spiral string in this match-up, because if it’s not spaced enough, you’re going to get hit with a jab -> combo into knockdown, and that’s the last thing you want. As Trike said, you cannot backdash a lot in this match-up, or you will knocked down with Lunge Punch. If the Yun player is using U2, don’t throw out projectiles, because it’ll go right through them, and you’ll get hit. If you’re close, as far as I know, if you try doing c.mp xx Spark, he can do U1 in-between, and it will hit you. Personally, I like using U1 in this match-up to punish dive kick savvy Yuns.
Jumpy Yuns/Yangs i use HP Soul Throw a lot, seems LP and MP soul throws whiff a lot as they seem you need to be closer to get them to grab, where as HP ST seems to snag yuns even if they are under you in the air.
Even Feis who do a lot of their flips can get caught with ST now.
You guys should definitely test it in the lab, but it felt like his grab box was REALLY FAR OUT. I was grabbing him from a mile away. Abuse that. Walk him to the corner. If you backthrow Yun into the corner and use the setup, his EX upkick won’t beat out ST(unlike Ryu’s EX DP).
If he mashes out: 140+120+120+160(80%)=508 backthrow + 2 orbs + ST
If he doesn’t block crossup: 140+120+120+60(80%)+100(70%)=498 backthrow + 2 orbs + cr. strong xx spiral
Someone correct me if I’m doing the math wrong.
Once they start blocking correctly, mix in the normal throw instead of ST and you will officially have them mindfucked.
It’s just scales from 80 -> 60 (20% each time), so just subtract ten more and you’re fine.
And yeah, I grab all day against Yun. Keep on him on the grounddd.
I also say the Yun match up is 6-4
I use st.mk to stuff a good amount of their moves and i try to use cr.mp x ss sparingly because cr.mp seems to get stuff a lot against Yun. If you get knockdown you should just block because he can punish you on a back dash and it could lead into him landing U1 on you. I also st. fierce on far dive kicks. I would use U1 in this match up to keep them wary of Diving/Jumping a lot and to punish full screen rush punches. (There is enough time to react you just have to be ready at anytime for rush punches.) Another thing that i’d watch out for is when he has about 1-2 full bars of meter is to watch for his ex shoulder because he can punish a fireball, then rp or u1 you.
This should have been posted hours ago but I guess hitting reply 3 times isn’t enough to get it through.
Did they change damage scaling in AE? Because in Super his math is correct.
nvm, I’m tripping. the second hit of the orb scaled because I hit the cr. mp before the second orb.
He’s right.
Rose’s low damage output is really starting to catch up to me. I think it’s inevitable that you have to use Ultra 1 in matchups that require that extra punch. The top of my list so far include Sagat, Balrog, and Blanka so far.
Sagat for the obvious reason of being able to deal a lot of raw damage. It’s fairly easy to bait out his tiger uppercut considering that’s his only option. Your normals beat out most, if not all of his standing and crouching normals. Also, like i said before, having Ultra 1 ready is a good deterrent to make it easier to open them up with throws and vice-versa it helps you bait out tiger uppercuts.
Balrog’s stand and crouch jab owns your soul. The rest of normals are just there to further show you that his footsies tool box is >>>>> than yours. He’s probably one of the few cast members i just can’t seem to throw because of his ridiculous cr. jab. WHY IS THAT MOVE SO GOOD. Look to punish any sort of dash punch, turn punch, or ex special. You should definitely be on the watch out for his shitty headbutt recovery.
Nobody should need an explanation here. Stand block a ball and have the buffer ready.
Anybody have anyone else in mind? The setup is so good and corner pressure with Ultra 2 is so awesome that it’s hard for me to forgo both just for slight chance of being able to throw a hay-maker. Akuma maybe? Rufus? Seth? Gief? Hawk?
And one final question. Anybody else think the Seth matchup is super fucked up?
I agree with Anton (I think I got that right) that U1 is the way to go with Honda. Honda may be built like a tank but U1 can hit like a truck and it is very threatening to Honda (and Boxer for basically the same reason). I also think it’s great against Dhalsim, though both Ultras are good for Sim for different reasons. U2 is good for getting in on Sim which is where you want to be. But U1 let’s you punish teleport tricks as well as Yoga Snipes. If you feel a Yoga Snipe coming you can slide Ultra and grab him on the way down. Hell, I bet you can block a Yoga Snipe and still be able to dash in and Ultra him. IIRC Sim actually recovers a frame faster than other characters when they land after they throw out an air move, but he floats in the air a lot longer. But that makes it easy to Ultra any whiffed air normals since he can’t teleport afterwards and he wont be hitting the ground soon. You can of course Ultra fireballs if you are close. And Spark FADC is still good ultra bait. You can catch chicken wings with U1 against Fei Long, so it will keep them honest. Against Adon if you keep him towards his half of the screen you pretty much eliminate Jaguar Tooths, and ground Jaguar Kicks aren’t hard to catch. It’s harder to catch straight up jump ins since he can change his jump arc with air jaguar kicks. I think you can safe jump OS U1 against Rufus and catch his EX Messiah Kick, I’m not positive on this but I think I’ve heard it’s possible, so someone should test it (I’m not good at safe jumping or OSing really). Since it comes out in 12 frames there shouldn’t be a backdash you can’t catch if you’re quick enough. Against Seth that is just a fuck ton of damage. Fully charged it’s more than half his health. You can catch T.Hawks Condor Dives with it of course. etc
Really it’s a very good punish Ultra. Maybe not as easy to punish things with it since it is kind of slow, but it hits hard, and it is good at keeping your opponent honest because it usually shuts down at least one of their options. It’s weakness of course is there isn’t really a good way to combo into. You either have to get a crumple, or you have to spend 3 bars to combo into it.
I do miss how good U2 was though. 
vs Rufus - OS U1 beats all his options except block.
well yeah u1 is a good punisher especially because it does damage which she just doesn’t excel at
I mostly like it because it shuts down options for the opponent it lets you have some/more control of the match
I personally don’t combo into it unless i think it will kill, I’d rather go the match with the threat of u1 rather than
hitting them with it and having them have ultra now and me with out mine and possibly down on meter as well
If u have 3 Bars u can use it as a 4Frame Punish <3
I have to train my reaction. Without I suck with U1 >_>
So basically, vs Yun this is what has been stated:
Matchup is around 6-4, Yun. Rose has to pay attention much more than he does though to be effective.
U1 seems to be the preferred ultra choice. limits some far dive kicks and lunge punches. Yun has low HP so the damage from U1 is a big deal.
U2 can be used for the standard mixups after your throw. cr MP into EX spark, then activate sounded like a good way to activate safely to get out of pressure.
General strategy and move info:
Zone him- s MP and s FP are recommended to counter dive kicks from far away. Spiral at the right distance can work to beat dive kicks, or get you under him safely. His throwable box is fairly large, so use that to your advantage.
He is easier to catch with soul throw than normal (non meaty dive kicks will basically always lose). Look for this to make him think twice about jumping.
When you get knocked down, expect to block. Back dash is very punishable, so use it sparingly. Lots of his meaty options (ie dive kicks, palms) have lots of active frames, so I find that EX spiral loses often.
When Yun does EX lunge punch, he is +1 on block. Know this and don’t leave yourself open. If you’re expecting a lunge punch, slide can beat it/get away. Just don’t slide constantly, a quick dive kick can easily start a combo for him if he’s expecting it.
cr MP doesn’t work too well in this match, some of his pokes can beat it and he can dive kick on it. s HK also seems less effective at range, use s HP. Rose’s c HP can lose to dive kicks either done quickly or delayed- use soul throw or EX soul throw instead for jumps. Rose’s cr MK can go under reversal up kicks.
His U2 and EX shoulder beat fireballs pretty easily at a good range.
Anything else important that I missed? No one mentioned his super, but I don’t think there’s much to say- if they combo into it, watch the show. If they activate from far, pray?
Don’t think much of Genei Jin. It’s a regular super hahaha. If it’s activated in combo, it’s like our super, if they activate far, treat it as if it’s Juri’s ultra or something of the sort.
fs. mk is good, it beats all lows clean, a universal thing.
I can’t test right now, but can someone tell me if st. mk whiffs on his cr. short, I know it does on Yang, but st. mk (the close one) has always been what I use to blow up crouch techs.
Does cr. forward always whiff vs EX Reversal up kicks?
the close standing MK does whiff if Yun does low short.