Lets see what info i can give you and if im wrong someone else can correct me. (Yes she can punish dive kicks.)
Yun- His dive kicks can be tricky but i would advise you not to focus his dive kick since it is quicker than yang’s and he can can hit you out of your focus right after he lands or he can use his lp or mp to hit you on your back dash then continue a combo and put you in another wake up situation. I would just block and wait to do a reversal or do a safe back dash to get away.
Yang- His Dive kicks can be punished easier. You can do cr.hp or st.hp but be careful of those who delay their dive kicks if they seem like they are in the air a little to long i’d use soul throw or you can even focus attack his Dive kick but be careful of that too because if he can space his dive kick right he can either back dash or hit you out of your focus attack. (I find it easier to FA and then follow up with a combo)
Cammy- Her dive kicks are safe when she hits you at the shoulder (blocked) or (Blocked at the chin) it is safe. If it is on top of above the head it is unsafe.
The safest blocked is +8 ( at the knee/hip) and the unsafe -5 and that is way above the head. If she does one above your head i’d either soul throw, cr.hp, or FA it.
Here is a chart of the frame advantage that she gets and where she is landing to help you
Oni- He doesn’t have a dive kick. (Well not to my knowledge but im pretty sure he doesn’t.)
Akuma- I can’t really help you with this one because i have problems with his Dive kick myself.
Rufus- I do Cr.hp, Ex ST, or block it.
When they do a dive kick right above Rose’s head and they land in front of her its not considered a cross-up if it hits her on the other side where she is supposed to block it is. I usually identify when a dive kick will cross up is when the opponent is mostly on the other side of me and i can see where their attack will hit.
(Btw i’m not sure if Rose can do this against palms but she cannot reflect palms. I thought it would work since it was considered a projectile but she can punish palms with u1.)
If the simple answer of just reacting to it was the solution, then nobody would be complaining so much. At that stupid up close range, you essentially have to react to his jump and press st. mp or st. jab b/c none of your other options are any good. The problem is even if you do react, as ROSE you will get stuffed out a lot of the time if he delays his divekick. Since you’re matching your st. mp on the assumption that he’s going to divekick RIGHT AWAY, if he starts to delay his divekick a tick or so, there goes your 3 active frame window for stand far medium punch.
If they’re bad then you can ST? Oh man i didn’t know that. What will you do if they don’t ever do divekicks at bad ranges. It’s the same argument i’m making against reflect. Yes it’s good for absorbing fireballs if they are bad and throw fireballs at stupid spots. But when you meet GOOD players that throw fireballs at the RIGHT spot, reflect is ass. Well, i take that back. Reflect is very good against charge projectile characters.
You have to take into account that Yun and Yang have low health; so they would like to do their dive kicks where it’s safe.
If they don’t do it from a certain range, they won’t be safe, and therefore it’s not safe to do the dive kick. It’s a 50/50 guess, and if you guess right, it’s in your favor, if they guess right, it’s in their favor.
Now what I like to do (and what I told SK in an MSN chat) is I like to space myself so whenever they jump, I spiral on reaction to the jump.
If they do the instant dive kick, I will either win or trade (their height restriction + their hurtbox being outside of the hitbox), if they do a farther dive kick, I will end up in the other side, and if they do a regular jump in, I’ll be on the other side.
If you’re like “well I can’t do anything about dive kick pressure on wake up”, then duh, you can’t deal with safe jump pressure on wake up either.
This game is a game of chess and 50/50s, it will always be hard knockdown, safe jump os hitconfirm/tick, and nothing else. You just have to deal with them, they aren’t broken characters in the least bit.
Except, I do feel that ex lunge punch is too good a move ;/.
Let’s assume at that range you react and it’s a 50 50 trade. You hit them for 100 dmg, they upkick out and the situation gets reset. They hit you for a full combo which im sure is way more than 100 dmg AND they get to pressure you on wakeup b/c Rose doesn’t have a move that sends her halfway across the screen.
lol you’re doing something wrong if you’re letting them up kick out for free.
Everything they do is a risk.
If you block you get hit for no damage.
Yun is a problem, there is no surefire way to get out of anything; which is why the game is fun.
If you want a game where you always win and nothing is hard, go play Bejeweled.
But if you don’t win a certain match up that is winnable, and all you do is complain because there is no surefire way to get out of a situation, then play a game that doesn’t let you lose.
It was a 50/50 with Zangief; his 50/50’s were dangerous, but no one truly complained about it.
You have to play safe, you have to let them build the meter.
Walk forward, back block, stay patient.
They can’t take damage, you hit them with a cr fierce, you fireball fadc forward and wiggle. That’s when your 50/50 mind game comes in.
It’s a bad match-up, but complaining isn’t going to do anything; deal with it.
Yang isn’t even terrible. Just Yun has +1 ex lunges. :(.
But rose’s normals are wayyyy better than gief. Rose has a better footsies tool set in that matchup.
I’m just being the devil’s advocate here with the Yun matchup. I mean we call all pretend that it won’t be hard. But let’s be serious. Yun is seriously herp derp vs Rose and the rest of the lower cast.
I got 4th in a tournament I went to today, and I lost to Art’s Dhalsim and Chris G’s Yang. As of right now, Yang is definitely more of the foreign match-up for me than Yun. I can’t really determine if Rose has it easier against him, but it still feels like a pretty difficult match-up for her to me right now.
i wouldn’t say he’s herp derp against the whole cast. you ignore the power of a dp. Ken looks like he stands a good chance. Bison? Maybe but he prolly suffers the same problem. Gief looks pretty strong. Three button reaction anti-air. Redonkulous jab spd range.
Also, there are varying degrees of herp derpness and he’s definitely uber herp derp against the lower cast.
Rose, the member, has always been on the opposite side of popular opinion. Not because it may be wrong, but he believes that he should at least try to counter ‘groupthink’, whatever the truth is.
eg he kept defending U1 as the ultra of choice until the mid of SSF4. :forever alone:
Rose vs Yun is a bad matchup by design. She has no reliable counters against dives. Whatever you can find to get it look even, you will still lose out to EX lunch.
to be fair, im going to start using u1 for alot of matches. not just because of the nerf, its because my ground game and experience have caught up to the difficultly of the ultra. pretty sure im going to use it for at least yang…
Honestly I’m having more trouble adjusting to the Makoto match up right now, I end up wearing my ass as a hat against her now. The twins are strong, really strong, but I think most of peoples troubles at this point is getting over the mental match up. Anytime I lost to a twin it’s normally beacuse I can’t keep my greasy mits off mp when they applying pressure. They’re so free on wake up, I wee a little when I get a knock down. I just hate command grabs to be honest… So lame…
Makoto went from like a 7-3 match up to a 5-5 match up unfortunately :/.
I counter what the group says because you guys like to fight with theory. Like Honda? If we were to fight on theory, Rose would win, because there is no way Honda would ever catch up to Rose; but in reality, it’s easily a 5-5 because Rose has tools to keep him out, but even the best of players make mistakes and stupid decisions. Popular opinion with the twins? No, I’m agreeing that the twins are BAD match ups, but they’re not unbeatable match-ups. Like I had stated earlier, it doesn’t matter if I can’t beat Daigo; not many people can, not even ones with even or good match ups against Yun. But if I can beat the offline So-Cal Yun community, or most of them, I’m good. That just makes me a better player. In theory, every match would only be won by one person, never an 10-0. But when we discuss match-ups, we have to discuss the risk, the actual degree of the risk, and the reward, and that’s where health, counters, tools, fake outs, and other unorthodox shit comes up - not because I want to argue, because I want to see how you guys can actually play out the match-up. I know I can play the game and play and try to win, instead of otherwise saying “oh the match-up is so impossible I’m just gonna complain on the Rose boards over and over and I’m not gonna try to win.” There is no surefire way to counter a lot, we don’t have every tool, but we have to work with what we have.
And ShinkuuR, that’s exactly how I feel - my ground game has progressed greatly ever since I had started playing with Rose. I used to use it at a low level anticipation ultra, but now I can utilize it in many factors, especially with better footsies, better fireball frames and stuff.
I’m always up for having a debate. Theory fighter is always fun. Talking and debating helps us from staying stagnant and thinking we have everything figured out.
Well i always thought Rose Honda was 6-4 Honda because he did way more damage. It was way harder for him to keep you out then you to keep him out.
Btw do you guys have any meaty cr. short timings with using whiff normals? I think i saw a Jiban video where he did slide into cr. short right away but i forgot what type of knockdown it was after. That’ll definitely come in handy against yun, yang, sim, and a couple of others.
J.LP can beat the Twins in air, but that is assuming you actually want to jump in the air and leave yourself open to that.
Best bet? Either try dashing out if they aren’t right on top of you, and if they are, block the string, back throw out to create some space and try to keep them away.
It’s pretty easy to time the frames of cr. short so it’s meaty.
Rose keeps Honda out, Honda can only jump to get past fireballs and even then- he has to take more risks than Rose does.
When Rose has U1, Honda’s jumping is nullified or else he eats BIG damage.
“Oh good players don’t jump” - good players do jump if they have to. You can’t block Rose’s fireballs all day and if you’re full screen, jumping without the reaction to the fireball itself is dangerous, which is why U1 is such a good scare factor.
