Need help with gouken matchup.
His dive kick stuffs anti airs, has that rush thingy so you have to be wary of reflect. Counter so you have to limit your cr.mp and his fucking DF sweeps and regular sweeps have so many active frames its hard as fuck to stuff it.
ex spiral loses to all version of gouken’s meaty sweep.
I don’t know much of the gouken matchup but…
there might be more stuff
I use empty spirals again gouken. Its my way of saying fuck your counters. I can break them!!! Now what can you do?
Do people really think Fei vs Rose is in Rose’s favor ??? I can’t believe I had this argument on Eventhubs -_-
Quit posting there. Save yourself the migraines.
Maybe he meant Rose has tools to deal with Fei despite it not being in her favor.
I mean, at least it’s not as bad as Ryu vs Fei.
Japan has some really messed up views on character matchups. I just had a Japanese Rose player tell me that Rose-Ryu is 4-6 Ryu because Ryu’s cl.HK apparently beats everything Rose does. And Rose’s s.MK is ineffective because Ryu’s MP beats it. Wat.
Well to be fair cl.HK does stuff everything rose does because of how active it is AND when the active frames are active, specifically during the vulnerable frames of rose’s reversal. The window to hit it meaty is pretty big also and its only -1 on block meaning there’s no risk doing it.
Secondly, cr. mp does beat st. mk but rose’s st. hk beats cr. mp. Rock paper scissors basically. You press st.mk when you think he’s fishing with low forward and low short. You press st.hk when you think he’s fishing with cr. strong and better priority moves.
And I do agree ryu > rose but that’s just my opinion.
Rose is 5-5 across the board in Japan’s eyes.
Pretty much losing only 4 match ups and beating Sagat and Makoto >.>
I still don’t get how Rose beats sagat… and Makoto is 5-5 imo.
I think Japan may need to re-evalute rose’s match ups all though they may just hate her and say hey this is what her match ups are…
Sakura’s legs are fucking retarded.
The hitbox on her crouch tech is similar to Rose’s so its hard to throw her. Her cr.MK beats ex spiral, slide, everything. She can alter her jump arc attacks better than Akuma.
I also tried to whiff punish her cr.MK with my sweep, but I got counterhitted out of my sweep because of active frames. Ryu taught her well.
Also, you have Sakura in the corner? LOL NOPE COWARDCOPTER OUT.
sakura can also OS cr.HP xx srk if she tries to catch your far st.HK
This matchup is in Rose’s favour though, just slightly. St.hk is hard for Sakura to deal with, yes cr.hp beats it but that’s not a great move to throw out in footsies since the recovery on it is quite large.
I wouldn’t recommend AAing Sakura with cr.hp though since she has a tendency to trade with AAs and I’d imagine it would be in her favour. EX ST would do the job though. EX ST also beats meaty tatsu.
Be extremely careful with the fireballs since you DO NOT want to eat a j.hk into a tatsu loop, also Sakura can do ex otoshi on reaction
Sakura’s cr.mk is a worst version of Ryu’s cr.mk but she gets more damage from landing it. With decent execution, she can cr.mk xx hp shou fadc > cl.hp > bnb for 300-400 damage.
I would say U1 is better in this matchup to AA Sakura, a lot of Sakura players (I’m guilty of this myself) has a tendency to jump tatsu to force their way in.
Dont’ do anything in the corner as Sakura can do cr.lp ~ U2 to beat everything Rose can do (I think the air fireball will catch EX ST as well, I will have to test this again but I’m pretty sure it does)
That’s some info off the top of my head, if anyone else feels anything is wrong here, please let me know.
^ pretty much this
thanks for the input 
I think in general this is quite accurate however I have been hit out of u1 by air tatsu… I’m not sure how I feel about this match up now but sakuras potential is the huge damage potential for one correct guess vs rose although she does have better footsie in general however she can’t exactly take off massive amounts of life with her footsie… If sakura lands FA on you… Not only do you face a huge combo you are also in the position with sakuras mixup that can potentially end the game with really just two or three bad guesses… While for rose she needs like 6 or more guesses to win
-LAU
Can people stop saying “This beats that” when it comes to footsies?
Before considering attack priority, account for these possibilities: Who swung first? How far does that attack go? How much start-up/recovery does it have? How many active frames does it have? Did the attacking player already have frame advantage?
I mention this because I’ve traded all of Rose’s normals with just about anything, yet I’ve also beaten other player’s normals, yet I’ve also had my normals stuffed. It just seems to be foolish to say that any one move beats any other move always. Even Balrog can focus crumple Rose’s spiral before it comes out… just a lot of factors to consider.
I do like going heavy with c.MP in the Fei match up though when zoning sometimes. it’s a good pre-emptive attack on possible rekkas (and no I’m not saying c.MP > Rekka!). Much better than slide though. I’d count on neutral jumps more than trying to slide at Fei… or sweep. ugh sweep is so bad on block now, and Fei’s one of the only characters that can punish it. Rose prospers at mid range zoning, but not all Fei’s play the same. You could get away with a lot of up-close shenanigans if the Fei player is sleeping and doesn’t feel like risking uppercut.
i partially agree with what you say… yes… a lot of it is determined by when the opponent is throwing out the move and who thrown out the move and at what time and why are they using that option… and at what distance…
I do think some examples people use are kinda vague and rarely do people specifically say how they are using that move in footsie to win… which is probably even more important because like you said… pretty much any moves can beat any other moves depending if they use it correctly or not.
I guess people naturally assumes everybody footsie game are on even ground and have a good understanding of footsie… .which is completely not true… if you look more indepth some players have exceptional skills using certain moves over others… personally i think i use Rose’s slide exceptionally well but i don’t really use her fs.HK nearly as well as i would like…
the part i will disagree with you about is… there are certain moves that when used ‘correctly’ often beat the other moves… with any footsie game… there’s always that ideal range where the character would most likely use a certain move over another… … i’m not gonna use Rose’s c.LP when my opponent is at tip of fs.HK distance… simply because it doesn’t hit… so given at that range i have a limited amount of options for footsies… this applies for other characters as well… so to say… this move beat that move… what i’ll assume is… given at that range your opponent will most likely throw out “that move” and if you’re using “this move” you’ll beat him out of it MOST of the time…
for some characters beating out that one key footsie move basically closes doors on footsie for that character… take ryu… if you beat his c.MK… you more or less beaten his main goto footsie move… if you figure out which range he likes to do c.MK and you do your move to counter it… (lets say fs.HK) you kinda close his options severely…
-LAU
Um, no? All of the stuff you listed is stuff that the player should be aware of and thinking about in their own mind during their match, and stuff that… is part of what priority is. Saying “Rose’s s.MK beats Ryu’s cr.MK” doesn’t mean “Rose should mash on s.MK every chance she gets against Ryu, no matter her frame (dis)advantage or where she is on the screen”, nor does anyone think that it does. If Rose has a clear answer to Ryu’s best poke, then why shouldn’t we mention it?
Seriously? I don’t think we need to spell out every last fucking detail before we make statements like that. The main consideration should simply be the circumstance in where the exchange can occur. “Rose’s st. MK can go over and hit Ryu’s cr. MK when they’re done at the same time. It can also whiff punish cr. MK very effectively.” That’s enough explanation.
There’s no need to go into details like the range of the move and the frame data when making statements like this. People should be able to infer why a move beats what move. Frame advantage should not be a consideration in footsies because the very concept of footsies implies a neutral situation.
honestly to be fair to Metroxylon… i do understand where he’s coming from… footsie isn’t always clear cut thing where it’s always as easy as rose s.MK > Ryu c.MK… most of the time… if you’re actually good with footsie you’re actually throwing the move out there… and it’s “out of range” if they just stand there…
example… watch how Luffy uses c.MK with Rose… he basically buffers in ex spiral in all his c.MK… and he only throws it out when it’s out of range … why? well in order to block you need to be in downback position… you can’t walk forward and block at the same time… so if it connects its definitely on hit… and this will only occur when your opponent walks foward… or does a move (playing footsie as well) that makes his hurt box forward… for the c.MK to hit… this is a small example of what good footsie should be.
sometimes you’re required to do moves with a shorter range to beat out a move with a longer range… simply because your opponent have moves that works at better range than yours… example… (lets take Blanka… because i know him better)… to counter dhalsim’s fs.HP my options are c.HK, s.HP, s.HK… those imo are what i recommend… with Blanka… but those same moves will also lose to fs.HP… infact if i don’t explain how to use it… you’ll lose more than you win… to simply say… Blanka c.HK > Dhalsim s.HP is being too vague… you kinda need to explain exactly how and when you’re using it… how you’re baiting s.HP to tag c.HK and trip him full screen away… when are the times it won’t work at all…etc etc etc.
-LAU