SSF4 AE Guy Changes

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
541

The frame data isnt wrong… its just very hard to get +3 on the F.MP OH…because its active for 2-2 frames… 2 for each hit… so even if you DO get CH…its gonna be on the first hit…the hitstun does not carry over to the second hit…

The only way to combo of it will be to hit on the last frame of the second hit… which will give you a +3 … this was already confirmed by people who played AE , It can be used on wakeup but timing is very strict…

You can also combo if the 1st hit whiffs and you get a CH on the 2nd hit…I guess it might be possible to find a setup to use after KD…perhaps whiffing a normal and then using the overhead… but timing would be 1f …

Edit : Need to find some anti twin tech :expressionless: … if the unblockable J.mk works on other chars am sure there might be something against the twins… gen has some weird unblockable on the twins … by unblockable i mean the very ambigous crossup, where u need to hold one direction and then block then otherway

542

If it was for me? I didnt say I comboed Forward MP into TC. I said from a certain spacing if they block it I was able to hit them if they tried to counter with a follow up TC and not get punished. I haven’t done any big testing on it just used it alot last night. Did it by accident once then just kept abusing it. Im sure its punishable I just havent gotten punished for it YET.

I have only Played AE since console release. Was just throwing it out there so people could mess around with it. Im still gonna use till I start getting punished for it.

543

No i was referring to Afo when i was talking about getting a +3 … F.MP puts you pretty far , so i guess people where just pressing buttons that were not reaching you … or pressing it too late… its still an awesome overhead… although the damage is soo crap now… there are times i get only 30 dmg coz the 2nd hits…

544

Ok, so did they make Guy’s lp hozanto safe enough so that Zangief cant punish with SPD every time? I remember hearing some talk about it.

545

Yep it’s only -1. But in this version Zangief matchup feels so bad that I’m having to resort to a second main. It’s ridiculous really, Guy has to poke Zangief to death to win. Up until now I thought this match was winnable, but it only takes
one serious Zangief player to show you how hard it is for Guy. You just can’t jump in and Guy has no projectiles.

If the Zangief player chooses to block and poke with st.mp etc, he will have that 1 buttons lariat reversal at the ready, and this matchup becomes like 7-3 if that, IMO. Don’t expect a good Gief player to jump in on you for free anti-air damage.

546

Yeah I definitely agree Af0. All Guy has is st.mk really as none of his other pokes cut it.

Cr.hk is suicide as the risk vs reward is way in giefs favour.Why risk a max range/spaced cr.hk being blocked and SPD’ed when on hit you’re scoring like 40 damage and wont even get a knockdown.

St.hp just isnt very good because of the hitbox which doesnt extend far enough away from Guy himself.You need long range pokes as you dont want to ever put yourself in Giefs new SPD range.

That leaves you with cr.Mp which is okay as you can option select into EX hozanto to keep him out but its very easy for a competent Gief to whiff punish. St.mp has the same problems.Again, both of these cant really be used from mid-far range like st.mk so getting in a position where you can use st.mp and cr.mp you are already putting yourself at risk of getting scooped.

St.Hk just has a terrible angle on it.Probably Guys worst poke overall.As an anti air it really only works on far range jumps which shouldnt really happen at high level and especially not in this matchup. Guy has little to stop Gief from jumping at you in close range in general.

I need to test out Guy’s cr.hp against giefs pokes though.Anyone had any success with it?

Zangiefs will tend to just walk forward and use st.mp alot and they end up bulldogging you into the corner because simply put Guy has nothing to threaten or challenge Gief damage wise. So you just whiff punished Giefs normals with st.mk? Well done you’ve just scored like 20 damage lol.Meanwhile he just walks forward not giving a fuck.

HP bushin flip is a good escape from the corner but good Giefs will anticipate with neutral jump headbutt. Now you’re caged in the corner.

EX bushinsenpukyaku is a good reversal on wakeup after the SPD 50/50 but is it worth it if the Gief has an U2 stocked? Also the motion can get messed up and turned into EX run sometimes if the Gief does one of those very deep/ambiguous crossups.

Using Elbows to bait anti air lariats isnt possible anymore either as the new SPD range will catch you at the range where you whiffed them before.

This matchup is 7-3 in my opinion.

Guys worst matchups in AE in my opinion are:

Zangief
Akuma
Rose (still very bad even with Rose’s nerfs)
Ryu
Cammy

Best matchups:

Sagat
Seth
Gouken
Viper
Dudley
Blanka

Matches that have improved(some of these are 5-5 now):
Balrog
M.Bison
Honda(this is 5-5 from 7-3 now)
Fei Long
Rufus
Ken
Abel
Guile(I think Guy wins this fight now)
Chun Li
Dhalsim

Yun matchup is 6-4 in Yuns favour with Yang being slightly easier but still 6-4.Winnable 6-4’s for sure as Guy does have technology to blow up some of their stuff and his safe jumps work well on them besides Yun’s Ex upkicks.If you get pressure and momentum on these two after a punish or knockdown or something you can definitely beat them convincingly. It’s only because of the sheer tools and damage they have that they win the matchup.

Havent played against a good Evil Ryu yet but the matchup seems better than regular Ryu.Havent played against any Oni yet.

547

I have played many Oni’s online with no issues its just too soon to see how Oni looks when he is all figured out. Some of Desk’s stuff looks nice!

548

I agree to a certain extent. As long as you don’t get caught in Zangief’s Vortex for the most part, then that’s when the match can get really bad. I found some things against his normals though, if it helps.

  1. Gief’s Far stMk (on Block) can be Reversed with Guy’s Ex Hozanto.
  2. Gief’s crMk and crHk (on Block) can be Reversed using Guy’s Ex Tatsu or combo into stMp.
  3. Gief’s Neutral Jump Headbutt can be countered using Guy’s Run Slide or Normal Slide. You can also use crMp or crMk.
549

Speaking of Yun, I know Yang’s cr lk can beat his lunge punch clean if timed correction, so my questions are obvious here

Can Guy beat it with cr mk, hk or run slide?

550

Cr.HK and RSL … just whiff and go under him … thanks to yuns retarded lower body invinc … havent tried Cr.MK … but i guess it should be more successful…Yun might hit it on its recovery if u mistime it though…

551

So since they’re talking about re balancing AE. What changes would you want to see for Guy? Let’s be realistic here. (Don’t say give him Dive kick, palm, or genei jin, Lvl 3 X-Factor, etc)

  • Faster start up on all Hozontou’s ( I don’t like wasting meter to punish fireballs, you can’t really react to certain projectiles with MP Hozontou, it’s too slow.)
  • Give EX Hozontou invincibility. Some? Any? This move is delegated to being a combo ender or a punisher to certain blocked moves which sucks because you need meter. I know Guy’s meter building is pretty good, but it sucks not being able to kill someone because you don’t have bar.
  • Buff the shit out of U1. This ultra is pretty bad. You almost never get raw damage from it and he’s limited to certain setups and combos into it. All the best characters have ways of landing their Ultra’s anywhere on screen. Guy needs this. In Alpha 3 this Super was used in conjuction with footsies and then you could combo afterwards. You shouldn’t have to combo into it, and when you do, the damage is horrible. It should have faster startup and more range so it can be used as it was in Alpha 3.
  • Make flip elbow an overhead. Honestly…why not? Theres no reason why it shouldn’t be. It can be - frames on hit, but give us something else against turtles.
  • Give run overhead more + frames on hit. It’s not a safe move, and people can see it, why not give him a sure combo every time it hits? It being only +2 (or +3 in some cases) basically tells the opponent, “Mash Shoryu or whatever”. Not a fan of being on advantage but not being able to continue pressure because certain moves have invincibility.
  • Buff his walk speed! He’d be so much scarier in the corner if he had a legit walk speed.

Thoughts?

552

Things I really hate when I play is missing cross up on standing rose(my friend plays her also :((((() and same on dhalsim. Also one of my friends play abel and if i land an elbow drop and hitconfirm 2 lp into bushin chain the mp in the chain misses really bugged imo. I play much online and I usally use TC to punish stuff and most shotos the hp misses if they are not up close but then I usually does bushin chain anyway. Run overhead to hit crouching female chars and dhalsim, I mean so guy doesnt jump over them if you do it close. Better walkspeed and faster hp shoulder so you can punish fireballs online better without ex ofc :wink: also I want to remover hk slide since I tend to slide into focus attacks alot :smiley: akuma cr.hk would be nice :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: I feel this would up my game alot ^^

553

Those seem like more your issues than with the character, And basing things off online play do not help. Unless that post was total sarcasm.

554

honestly… the only thing i want… is walkspeed. it still confuses me as to why they made it so bad when he’s always had one of the fastest walkspeeds in the alphas. you give him walkspeed… guy becomes one of the best footsie characters combined with the ridiculous hitbox of cr. strong(cr. strong already beats everything as it is). his ability to whiff punish would be insane… not to mention we still have that great poke st. forward(which i’m really pleased it’s startup and recovery frames were buffed), and cr. rh. guy’s sweep is great at punishing whiffed shoto cr. forward. or any ranged low normal(twins cr. forward comes to mind).

so yea… the rest of guy feels fine to me. in comparison to ssf4 to AE… he feels much more complete. it definitely felt like we had an unfinished character in super. give guy walkspeed… he becomes a very scary, far more viable threat.

555

He’s definitely leagues better than before, but if Capcom is willing to indulge me, I’d also like better walk speed and make it so his running overhead always gets both hits against focus attacks. Also, it would be nice if some of his jump attacks were more angled. Guy’s jump ins, more than anyone else’s, seem to lose completely to low attacks.

Overhead elbow is wishful thinking though. I think Capcom considers it a divekick because of the input :rolleyes:.

As for the hit box issues, they have more to do with Dhalsim and Rose than Guy. That garbage is all over the game though because of moronic decisions like making “static” animations dynamic. We still have limbs randomly going through characters for no reason on the ground and Rog still has a fucking force field around him after 2 revisions to the game. Basically, I don’t think they’re willing to fix the hitbox issues.

P.S. Ono is either a complete moron or doesn’t really give a shit and won’t listen to your suggestions, but will instead find a way to make Yun better.

556

Smileys help to see sarcasm, hitboxes makes me angry everything else that guy got in AE makes him really fun to play.

557

lol funny way of putting it, but yeah it’s really annoying.

558

AE Balance Patch announced!!!

Make Guy better. Buff his defense and work on his offense.

-ex sbk should be invincible completely, its already very risky, you can’t fadc and its only 4 frames.

  • Make run-hk always hit twice on impact or give it more frame advantage on hit to combo consistently.

-Make bushin flip elbow hit overhead like the alpha games

-Improve U1, make it combo mid screen and make it so if first hit connects then you get full ultra because a lot of times it pushes them back!!

-Increase U2 range and make input leniency the same as ssf4

-Increase throw range

-Make ex izuna throw invincible.

-Enable ex hozzanto connect after bushin chain flip combo.

*Give all characters new moves to make the game more fun and diverse.

Maybe we should make a new thread so capcom has an easier time seeing what we want in the new balance patch

559

I’m with Albo, Guy needs more. My Biggest issue with Guy is he’s to slow for a rush down character. Here’s my Dream List;

  1. Give Guy a ‘Speed Boost Super’. Make it work like Jill’s or Wolverine’s Speed Boost in MvC3, so Guy could chain into multiple Run Stops. (Target Combo into Run Stop, Target Combo into Run Stop, Target Combo into Run Stop, Bushin Chain into Ultra 1 or some thing like that). This would give Guy instant Fast Walk Speed, Fast Normals, and because he’s so fast he would have the ability to Cancel into pretty much any thing. He could even create awesome corner juggle’s like Yun or Yang. Guy would easily have one, if not the best, corner pressure games with that Speed Boost.

  2. Trade Guy’s Ultra 1 into his current Super. Trade Guy’s Ultra 2 into his old Alpha Super, ‘the one that flys across the screen horizontally’. Ultra 1 would be made for anti-air and Ultra 2 would be made to go through Projectiles more specificly. And both can be comboed into.

‘Guy’s current Ultra’s aren’t that useful, limiting his game potential. Giving Guy a Speed Boost Super or Ultra would solve alot of Guy’s problems. Guy’s current Ultra 1 is more of a “Corner Only Ultra”. Giving Guy his old Alpha Supers would instantly improve Guy’s game because he would be able to use either Ultras any where on screen for multiple purposes. IMO Guy should easily be the best Rush Down character in the game’.

560

Target Combo xx Run > Stop changed to be +1 on block, please. I don’t think that’s too unreasonable.