i haven’t read any of the other character threads but has anybody else changed as dramatically as cammy seemingly has due to nerfs?
it’s a newer term for a mixup that ends in knockdowns where the mixup is repeated each time the defender guesses wrong. it’s also generally a term for mixups with many options that heavily favor the attacker. the most common example of a vortex is akuma.
Thanks. By the way i read that fireball characters were nerfed and their fireballs got slower? so does that mean they are easier to hit with QSP? if so it might be very good for cammy to get in
you don’t cancel far fierce to mk drill… You use hk
apparently the word is that Yun & Yang now play like SSF4 Cammy? Is this the case?
@bunsomite
Would both hits connect if far hp is canceled when spaced? I totally forgot that far hp is good now that I forgot to try it out when I played her lol. Next time though.
Something else I forgot to mention.
One mix up that still works after a back throw in this game is the classic Sanford mix up. For those who don’t know what I’m talking about, it’s the one where after a back throw, you immediately jump and when you reach the apex of your jump, you either hk CStrike or lk CStrike. HK will land you on the other side of your opponent while LK will leave you on the same side. The camera moves high enough where the opponent cant verify where you land, and you land just in time for a meaty (I’ve seen Kuraudokin and sometimes Sako use this mix up off back throw). Along with the other mix ups that don’t require low dive kicks, there is still a reason to fear getting throw by Cammy.
In a weird way, she’s shaping up to be another version of Cody when in close range. Pressure with jabs/normals while trying to break the opponents defense through throws and frame traps. Regardless, I’ll still be sticking with Delta Red for the time being.
Almost all the time… Go back a few and you’ll notice sumner set upsive tested.
A I’ve done the combo its only hit once twice… And it just might of been me pressing mk arrow on accident… I don’t know
GREAT. I just spent like 10 mins writing out a huge post about AE Cammy and SRK dropped my logged in session and it vanished. Because of this I will rush through a summary: (I went to Chinatown Fair today and played 6 games as cammy on AE, here’s what I think)
- Cannon strike restriction isn’t that bad
- HK Spiral arrow nerf SUCKS.
- Nice Combos, but harder to land without low cs/tkcs, and I was always unsure if I’d be able to combo from a normal cannon strike.
- All of her knockdown cannon strike mixups work even with the restriction. obviously not all, but you can still mix someone up if they’re laying on the ground with normal cs.
- I didn’t notice much difference in her pokes.
- SHE IS USABLE! Don’t lose faith guys. A lot of the posts before today had me quite worried that she was trash… she’s far from it, we just need to work even MORE and manage meter better. I really feel like the worst thing about her right now is the HK spiral arrow nerf… I managed to do just fine using the new cannon strike, most of my game turned into frametraps,throws,footsies. I didn’t get to land any of the new combos, but I stuck to my SSF4 combos and it paid off. I got a nice 5 fight win streak against some good competition and then got kicked off. I played against Sagat, Gouken, Yang, Viper, Guy, and Blanka. I felt like all of those matchups are even or in cammy’s favor except for sagat. I think sagat has a much easier time with cammy now. I do also see why some of you guys have been posting that projectile characters may become a problem for cammy, but we’ll be fine.
Spooky showed up just before I started playing so hopefully he’ll post some of the footage of me playing on youtube. If I find anything I’ll be sure to post it here :karate:
I’m not scared of projectile characters… Just dhalsim 
My god… yes! This matchup goes from being in total control once you get in to having him slip through your fingers a lot it seems.
Anyone who thought Cammy would be ass in AE for shame. Still has hella better fundamentals than Yun or Yang any way. They have their own good shit like command throws and custom supers and what not but bitch still has a DP and cannon strikes didn’t get nerfed to the ground like people thought. Just keep on keeping on with Cammy.
Can anyone tell me what the new vanilla cspike is for now besides ambiguous crossups on wakeup?
so based on combos we should end with far hp hk sa. close to the corner use different arrow strength.
it seems c.lk/clp, c.lp, c.hp, far hp, hk sa possible on big hitboxes like abel, dudely, sagat… etc
c.lk, c.lp, far hp, hk sa
c.lk, c.lp, c.hp, c.hk should also combo? 
safe jump setups will be very important vs 4+ reversals.
i wonder whats the maximum damage combo is. on dizzy i assume jump hp, c.hp, far hp, hk sa :looney: all heavy lol :wgrin:
the trick is now using EX TKCS at the correct and right moment.
crossup with high strike is possible NOW in super after backthrow. you do a backthrow take a step forward then jump high strike. vary the strength kick depending on your opponents character.
like vs ryu you use hk strike. chun li you use mk strike. so i think this setup will remain
Di,
Highest dmg raw jump in combo is probably j.hp/hk close hp cr.mp far hp xx mk drill. Easiest and most useful for now is j.hp cr.hp far hp xx hk drill (2 hits). Double 2 frame link for good damage, ends with 2 hit hk drill.
Normal CStrike? It should always combo to any jab on hit. I recommend close jab, then cr.fierce sweep/far hp xx drill.
If they block the Cstrike and jab, see my above post for options.
Why not just use jumping short given the time to telegraph the move?
Jump short takes longer to hit from a grounded state (way longer) and doesn’t have the priority, angle, or frame advantage that CStrike has.
Lowest j.CS is 26 frames air to ground which is still quite fast for a jump attack that can be comboed out of on hit and that is safe (+0 to +1) on block.
Since the active frames for HK arrow were changed, is it known whether the frame advantage on HK arrow FADC has changed?
It may be harder to use with crouch MK xx arrow but it sounds like far fierce xx hk arrow could serve the same purpose in blockstrings.
A way you could test the frame advantage on hit without too much difficulty: Have the enemy focus, and do far fierce xx hk arrow FADC s.MP -> combo. Or if you don’t have a willing opponent, it could be done if you see that the enemy focused while you buffered poke xx arrow.
That way the poke hits armor, and the first hit of arrow breaks focus, and any hit that breaks focus is a counterhit. The first hit of spiral arrow gets +2 for a counterhit for +5 total. So if counterhit HK arrow FADC s.MP still feels easy (2-frame link before plink) then the frame advantage probably hasn’t changed.
[media=youtube]NkhjvKMGU9Q[/media]
some cammy action. still played as Super Vanilla no new links.
i noticed the push back of close mp on block.
im so frustrated with the cammy vids so far. I WANT TO SEE NEW LINKS
at least c.lp, c.lp, far hp, hk sa. or c.lp, close mp, far hp, hk sa.
or c.lp, c.hp, far hp, hk sa
im worried the combos arent possible due to pushback. i have nightmares of pushback.
Di,
Merry Christmas, everyone.
Sad to say that, after a long night on Christmas Eve of Cammy in AE at Round 1 in Southern Cali, it is very apparent that Capcom put Cammy on the Naughty List. Because, frankly, she’s horrid now.
I’m exaggerating of course. She’s very much still playable, but what it really boils down to is this:
She did NOT deserve this at all.
I keep saying this to people I talk to. She’s still playable, but the fact that they’ve nerfed her so badly between the Dive Kick and the Drills and even the “easier” to be punished DP, you’d think they’d have done something to her long range game to improve her. But they didn’t. The truth of the matter is this: we have every right to be mad, because Cammyis just NOT FUN anymore.
Frankly, it’s worse than it was back in the days of “Cammy sucks!” in Vanilla. When Buktooth came in and told me I was wrong to think Cammy sucked, he was right: the Dive Kick made up for a lot of problem. But now, if you want to, you can easily just Low Block Cammy forever. Her Throw range isn’t good and the pushback on her normals are a lot higher than most people think they would be. And the only way I was getting wins with Cammy that night was people were attacking me because they were trying to have fun or they were scared of me up close for no reason and hitting buttons. But if I played against someone who literally did nothing, just Blocked, there was nothing I could do. I could frame trap and push buttons all day long and if they blocked, they had nothing to be afraid of. Even the slight chip damage from a Dive Kick was enough to make people act. But Cammy has NOTHING to do Chip Damage at all with anymore. So if you just chill and look for Throws, there really is very little Cammy can accomplish.
I’m very close to calling Cammy the worst character in the game right now because of this. Her bad match-ups may have gotten better because of THEIR nerfs (Balrog, though, will be a huge problem still), but a lot of match-ups that weren’t bad got far worse. Dhalsim, for example, will easily be in his advantage now. And I can’t imagine Cammy doing well against Guile at all anymore. Again, it’s all just about patience. If Cammy is pestering you with Normals, why should you flinch? For what reason could you possibly be afraid of anything? Throws are the ONLY threat, and the most damage she can do off of a Throw is a Throw.
My response to people like DevilJin is this: she IS ass. And not because she is worthless, but because there is very little redeeming about her anymore. I won my fair share of games that night, but it’s just like… there is very little reason to want to keep using her anymore. Why didn’t they give us something in return for the huge nerfs she got? The Drill nerf is REALLY annoying, btw. Even mid-screen Drill Combos made me go under the opponent. You really have to use Short Drill only now. There’s no other choice.
Yeah, I’m all super doom and gloom right now, but it’s not from a standpoint that Cammy is useless. It’s just that she’s not fun anymore. She’s a shadow of herself, and barely worth playing. Even Justin gave her a shot and lost to a Guy player (I have it on video if anyone is interested). And even he said she’s really boring now.
Anyhow, rant over. Here’s some technical info:
Far Fierce is NOT the be all, end all ender. It’s VERY distant dependent. There’s a weirdness that only makes it combo most of the time if it hits in an earlier frame. So there ARE distances it can connect but won’t Combo because it hits in the later frames. For example, on three Low Jabs into Far Fierce, I never got it to link. It could only work on two Low Jabs. After doing three, the earlier hitting frames were too far away and the opponent could block by the time the later hitting frames reached them. I never tried it but there is NO WAY Close Fierce, Crouch Strong, Far Fierce will work as a combo.
Close Fierce, Far Fierce XX Drill, however, does. This will become your #1 post-Focus Attack punish Combo.
Up Close Crouch Jab, Close Strong, Far Fierce into Drill also works. This will probably be the best quick react, high damage punisher. Crouch Jab, Close Fierce, Far Fierce does NOT work.
Far Jab is HUGE, now, for hitting people who can’t crouch it. Any connected Stand Jab links into Low Forward now for a Short Drill knock down.
Crouching Strong is ALSO huge. A great frame trap move, better than all of the other ones for its guarantee to come out (Close Strong, for example, may turn into a Far Strong if you happen to be too far). It’ll combo into Low Forward pretty easily.
Stand Jab and Crouch Jab are +6 on hit. I tested this with Justin. He let me Counter Hit him with these moves and I tried to link into Ultra because, if they were indeed +7 on hit, wow, that means free Ultra on hit (Counter Hits add 3 frames of Hit Stun). But alas, he was able to block on both situations. So you will not be able to combo a Sweep off of Stand Jab.
Crouching Jab, Crouching Jab, Low Forward XX Short Drill is her best BnB right now. It’s the one that will guarantee to hit at any range. It’s a 1-frame link, however, so Crouch Strong can be used as a substitute and will be an EASY link. But it doesn’t quite have the range. Far Fierce oftentimes will not Combo nor be Bufferable at the random ranges you might land Crouch Jab x 2.
Again, a lot of Cammy’s shenanigans still work. Meaty Dive Kick games still work and such, but the fact that so much was taken away from her with so little in return is what makes me so salty. At this point, a Dive Kick from Hooligan, being able to Dive Kick while Jumping Straight Up, a Hooligan that grabbed Crouchers, a safer Drill… any ONE of these things would have felt nice to give us a new attack vector to help us make up for the HUGE attack vector we’ve lost. And the three Normals I was hoping to have seen improvement on, Low Forward, Stand Forward, and Stand Roundhouse, all were UNTOUCHED. It’s like they knew those would be nice to have so they kept it from us.
All I can really hope is that, if they do release the console version much later, enough time will have passed for them to have realized just how badly they nerfed this character and maybe the home version will see some improvements. I mean, honestly, no other character has been altered this badly IMO. Our whole offense has been changed.
- James
SRK ate up my posts. Gonna do highly abridged post:
HK Arrow nerf sucks a lot more than dive kick nerf. Goodbye FADC. You will hardly ever see a 2-hit arrow, it’s that bad.
Fierce links are fun, though. Gonna have to incorporate combos into sweeps more, seeing as how sweep combos are so effective against Guile/Boxer. Didn’t test the range on sweep…I hope it got better. Also didn’t get to try much c.mp action. Saw someone else combo 2 c.fierces on CPU Gief, not sure if that was possible in Super as I would never attempt such a foolish thing.
Once again, HK Arrow nerf is by far the worst nerf. It looks wrong, it definitely feels wrong, and of course the damage isn’t as good.
EDIT: Also, cl. fierce does not link into c.fierce. That may have already been known since last week, but I decided to try 4-5 times anyway. Oops.
James, your posts are always great to read. I do find that it’s kind of weird how down you are about Cammy, because I was excited as hell to finally play her on an arcade cabinet. Her divekick shenanigans are so much better on 16:9 monitors! When the camera pans up and down, it makes the other guy nervous, I can feel it! Then, you got random people around you asking whether or not divekicks cross up, asking you to test different links, etc., it was all very fun and enjoyable. FINALLY, Cammy in an arcade setting, with all the elements of the arcade. I was happy overall.
You shouldn’t feel so bad, man…not just because Cammy still has a lot of fun potential left in her, but because people really respect your point of view and will eat up anything you say, even if it’s a bunch of negativity. Complaining about Cannon Spike on block is almost laughable; you’re no scrub, man! If someone blocks your DP, they should get to punish it. Adding that complaint to a stack of complaints is fishing for negatives.
If sweep combos aren’t as practical as I’m hoping they’re gonna be (in terms of pushback), then that will be disappointing. But whatever, at this stage of the game, people are still gonna be testing out bootleg stuff and getting up quick, making Cammy and her divekicks fun for at least another couple of weeks. Merry Christmas!