I think a combination of people learning how to play her, + Sako’s popularity + the addition of a larger roster that mostly occupies the lower half of the tier list and/or has weak reversals + scaling down the damage on the existing cast, helped push up perceptions Cammy’s position. If Super-Cammy was moved into Vanilla she wouldn’t seem so strong (although having a reliable cross-up does go a long way). She may be a non-dive-kick character with a divekick (like Juri?) but I don’t know what her forte is supposed to be if not that. I just don’t think she’s going to be as FUN without the early strikes. It will be the same routine of struggling to get in, except even harder, since they don’t appear to have given her any new tools against down-backers.
Yeah I’ve been doing the same… after playing her in AE I realized I had to rewire my Cammy gameplay or I’ll be throwing away money trying to pressure like I normally do. I slipped up a few times but I think I mainly got it out of my system… going to hit the arcades hard…
ok dont hurt me if im wrong.
But cammy with ex stocks, isnt’ she pretty much 80% of her former self with better normals?
with ex, she can do all that comboing and mixups
yea i dont get why the other dive kickers dont get nerfed.
but at least this will be a fairer fight with Viper.
I hear from all top vipers that even though the matchup says 6-4, the tops feels like its 7-3.
Betting the reason Viper doesn’t like that match is more because of Spikes preventing her from having any BK game more than TKCS. TKCS was just the cherry on top to deny her any wake up options if and when she gets knocked down. Seriously though what can Viper do if she isn’t allowed to BK? It seems like over 80% of her game is BK mixups, the other 20% is seismo’s and feints.
Could be wrong though as I don’t use Viper at all.
Ok… Some of those combos I couldn’t pull off and the ones I did… Weren’t recorded… When I did get a chance to record… I failed. At least got footage if cl mp far hp arrow and jab to cr mk… But missed ther cancel…
Either way… Go to combos should be…
Cr lk, cr lp, cr mp ( far fierce ) ~ mk arrow or EX…
Cr lp, cl mp, far fierce ~ hk arrow
Lp, cl mp, far fierce arrow
Or going into cl hp, cr mp, far fierce
Variations of these
I’ll toy with low strong far fierce more. Timing was odd. But oh well I’ll only be playing ae cammy for another week or so. Than probably switch to akuma or sak or something. ( because every tourny is still on console)
Ack, disregard what I said above about EX strike being changed/nerfed. I got my notes mixed up. EX strike is the same. Well, at least on block - I haven’t seen it hit anyone yet where they didn’t combo off of it immediately.
Didn’t see this posted anywhere yet:
[media=youtube]ks_O_wHixhs[/media]
Any new (possibly japanese) vids out there?
Also, I was going to suggest maybe substituting in EX arrow instead of hk arrow, if that one remained unchanged from SSF4. It would get the 2 hits more frequently and set up better mix up at the cost of meter. Or did this one get the 2-hit nerf as well?
I don’t think anyone tried it, but the dev blog specifically mentioned HK arrow, not EX arrow, so it might be possible.
So I played AE for a good hour and a half or so at FFA. No more than 5 guys so there was a healthy amount of rotation going around, so I managed to get a good dose of how Cammy plays in AE.
Basically, as everyone has mentioned, she’s the same character without the dive kicks. Her pressure game is definitely softer; it’s hard to consistently stay in given that some of her normals have a considerable amount of push back. So once you get in, you have to make it count with strong frame traps and tick throws. Her focus is still strong and is still a good tool to use in footsies. And her ex dive kicks are still the same so you can sacrifice a bar to keep the pressure going.
Ultimately, to utilize Cammy in AE, we have to pretty much relearn when/where to use each of her normals and learn new punish combos/frame strap set ups.
Some specific in game notes:
-Her HK SA is ass now. It’s range to get both hits is ridiculously shorter that I feel the only time I manage to get both hits are off BnB’s ending with jab/shorts. If you use HK SA against an opponent in the corner and successfully land both hits, you’ll switch sides and end up on in the corner. I haven’t tried EX in such situation so I don’t know if it’s the same or not. HK SA’s are not going to be used much at all considering she has new BnB’s ending with cr.mp and the fact that the range is too short to use in footsies.
-Her CStrike has been nerfed completely. Not only because there is a ridiculous height restriction on when it can be activated but also because she can ONLY use it when reaches near or at the apex of her jump. She can’t use it on her way down from a jump like before. Basically, her dive kicks cannot be activated when they are below the restriction height, regardless of what part of her jump you activate it at. Sucks…
-Her cl.hp is pretty much the new cl.mp. She can combo cr.mp after cl.hp and cr.hp when you land a cl.hp on counter hit. Cl.mp is still a good normal considering it leaves you at frame advantage and doesn’t have much push back. So it still has its uses/worth.
-Her hooligan set ups feel unchanged.
Not much more to say. I feel that she is also more meter dependent for consistent pressure (and possibly damage). Assuming her EX SA hasn’t been changed like her HK version, we might end up seeing that as a potential combo ender. Not to mention her, EX dive kick being the same and her lack of ability to fairly hit confirm into Super off HK SA, her meter will most likely be used not for Super but for other reasons.
I know people already know this, but it’s probably worth spelling out.
Cammy’s frame traps are decent, but not good enough. Against people who tech at the latest possible time, frame traps like c.jab > c.fierce or c.jab>close s.strong still just don’t work, and the only way to make people scared to stop mashing late OS throw break was to go for the cannon strikes. Then you got into the meat of the game which was going for frame traps specifically to beat out moves meant to stuff dive kicks and baiting for reversals > max punishing. This is what made Cammy absolutely fun to play since she rewarded good sequences and systematically breaking down the opponent.
Like everyone here has said already, exactly what did she get to compensate for this? Logically speaking, if she wasn’t going to get buffs to signature moves like hooligan or SBF but somehow still end up with nerfs to a move that formed the backbone of her current playstyle, she might be the most poorly designed and incomplete character in the cast (not to mention she already left that taste in most peoples mouths back when she was out in Vanilla). I just don’t get it.
Telling people not to be irate about this is pretty ridicolous too. People have every right to be dissapointed that their character got nerfed for no apparent reason (she had bad matchups against every single top tier character, and even then Rufus arguably does a lot of things Cammy does, except better even in the context of Super). To make matters worse, she was entertaining to watch and play, and is one of the characters that makes for exciting matchups as opposed to the borefest you get with characters like Guile wasting time.
The lack of common sense amongst the capcom dev team is astounding on this one.
Wow…now this is huge. No more baiting dps after juming over fbs, or baiting any other AAs for that matter.
Sounds useless. I wonder how strong she’ll be when the dust is settled. She already had impotent special moves and now they’ve increased the list, soon she’ll just use normals and throws the whole time. I wonder if the far fierce combos are actually any more damaging now that you have to cancel into medium drill. Seems they want the twins to have a monopoly on post-knock down mixup playstyle, given what they’ve done with Fuerte, Cammy and Ibuki. If they wanted Cammy to be a more ‘honest’ attack-from-the front character they need to give her the tools for it.
Can anyone see if far fierce can be fadc’d into close jab?
Is there a thread on the Capcom Unity website forums about all this? There really should be if there isn’t because Capcom REALLY dropped the ball on this. I’m not that good to begin with but I enjoy playing Cammy. I don’t want to have to switch altogether - I wanna keep stinging with the Killer Bee and believe that I have a viable chance and that the only reason I’m losing is my lack of experience - not because my character is bottom tier.
Yes, and despite having signs of life it has died off post release for some reason. It was hinted that Seth would drop in the thread and give his input, but he never did. They only have time to answer whatever is on the first page of the forum and threads get pushed off of it easily. What’s the rationale behind the SSF4 AE changes
Welp… time for a shameless bump.
I’ll post some thoughts on how I think Cammy should end up being played in AE.
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Walking jab will be more important than ever. The hitbox for Cammy’s jab is actually good, it hits crouchers and it gives +3 on block, leaving you with enough time to move in and do another one, combo if it hits, or keep walking if it’s blocked.
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cr.mp, hitconfirm far hp xx arrow / cr.mp CH confirm to sweep will be very important for poking. Cr.mp has a good amount of range as is now incredibly fast for a hitconfirm normal - only 15F - same as Ryu’s cr.mp. This will give you time to start walking in and poke if they block, and solid damage if they get hit (via far hp xx arrow).
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Every single combo should be ending in far fierce xx arrow, or cr.hp, sweep. There’s no reason to end in cr.mp xx arrow, when cr.mp, far hp should link at almost all ranges. And there’s no reason at all to use cr.mk xx arrow as a combo ender, when far hp is the same speed. Far fierce has more range, does more damage/stun, and is more likely to get 2 hits of hk arrow.
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Get used to doing 2-hit hitconfirm strings whenever possible, ending with close lp (+4) or cr.lp (+3). These will leave you very close and at huge advantage, leading into the mixups below, and the relatively easy cr.fierce, far fierce xx drill on hit.
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Normal Cannon Strike should always be followed up by close jab whenever possible. On some chars it won’t hit if they crouch, so cr.jab in that case. Hitconfirm into cr.hp, far hp xx drill if they got hit standing, cr.mp, far hp xx drill if they were hit crouching. If they blocked, you’re at +4 or +3 and in their face. Go into…
Basic mixup sequence:
If they blocked a jab in close range, then mixup between:
a) close hp (frametrap for throw techs). If it hits, then cr.mp, far hp xx drill, otherwise walk in again.
b) EX Cannon Strike (same, but larger timing to hit with). Leads to another mixup of this sequence.
c) cr.lk to close lp or cr.lp if enemy can crouch close lp (beats backdash inputs). Hitconfirm standing hit into cr.hp, far hp xx arrow, crouching hit to cr.mp, far hp xx arrow, or if they blocked then walk in and start the mixup all over again.
d) back throw into ambiguous 50/50 with front normal CStrike / crossup j.lk close lp.
e) block to bait reversal
Any time close lp hits, it should be easy combo time for Cammy. 2-frame link to low fierce, which then has another 2-frame link to far fierce. Cammy’s easiest combo starter (close lp) gives the most + frames on block/hit, as well as high damage combos through cr.fierce, far fierce, drill, so get that move out there whenever possible (ie. after blocked strike, after cr.lk).
not really, cammy being dp happy is of course 1 problem
the others include her being too small for viper’s moves to hit her, which includes bk and certain crosses.
Oh and her god like AA nromals, she literally have like 4 or 5 AA thats not even counting her DP.
Her normals and footsies out obviosly beats viper, buit then again whos dont?
But I’d say her CS and TKCS are what kills viper. Since viper has shitty escape. you can mix her up and vortex her all day long.
What is vortex ? lol
new school term for “mix up”