SSF4 AE C.Viper Match-up Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
81

So I was looking at the iplaywinner tier list. Not that it means a ton of is super accurate but Viper is moved up into the A tier all of a sudden after being a few places weaker than Ibuki even.

SUPER STREET FIGHTER 4 TIERS - Street Fighter Virtua Fighter Tekken SNK Capcom BlazBlue Fighting Game News Strategy and Guides at iPlayWinner.com

I was looking at it and it seemed the only thing that really changed was the consensus that she goes even with Rufus. Which I think is hilarious considering how that matchup was already difficult for her before Super SFIV. She had so much trouble zoning him effectively because the majority of tools she had to zone him had 10 plus frame start up. So if u whiffed or fucked up at all he got in for free. Now Rufus’ Ultra 2 keeps you from using any of those tools to zone him without worrying about Ultra 2. Whiff any special move at all and you get Ultra 2’d. He can even ultra the start up of a special move. So basically all u can do now is just feint shit to bait him and then are left with footsies than he can just dive kick over. All Rufus needs in this matchup is one knockdown to win it and now he can do it so much easier now that Viper’s ability to zone him just goes down the toilet once Ultra is stocked. Using any type of burn kick to pressure Rufus is just absolutely useless now. Thunder Knuckles…before MP knuckle was a real solid zoning tool but now he can just look for the start up and ultra 2 it. You can’t MP knuckle ever anymore. Seimos were great for zoning him from a range but now if he sees any seismo whiff you are dead. There was no way Viper could zone Rufus effectively without gambling and risking something whiffing and Rufus’ Ultra 2 takes full advantage of that. You pretty much turn into a shitty version of Chun Li when he has that ultra. Just a bunch of average pokes.

I think the main reason why Viper is so high in the tier list though overall is that the tier list gives you more points for beating a character that is high tier than someone that is low tier. Since Guile suddenly shot up into the top tier on their list the fact that Viper definitely beats Guile just kinda shoots her up the list. Even Flash Metroid’s Viper based Super tier list has Rufus beating Viper like 6.5 to 3.5 so I can’t even begin to believe some west coast consensus about the matchup suddenly being even.

82

What, I didn’t even see that lol. There’s no way Viper goes even with Rufus, for the exact reasons you mentioned DevilJin. I have no idea why they would think that.

Aw crap, I was supposed to put in new slots and fill in the recent info for the new chars. Sorry.

83

Can we update the whole crew, I mean everyone’s slightly changed even ifs it just a couple of things and like we need playstyles to because some people don’t exactly play all the same.

I’d be glad to help if you need it.

84

Yeah, the whole crew does need updating. I’ll hopefully remember to get working on the organization and stuff.

85

i dont get why nobody has compiled a tier list like this

super nohoho fighter ii x: Super Diagram Turbo Version 3

atleast we know who’s opinion it is instead of just randomly tossed numbers

86

^
We could do that.

Anyway, thread’s been updated. Only one problem, I don’t think I have space to fit all the new chars in that one reserved spaced LOL. Anyway, the info for Juri, Ibuki, T-Hawk and Dee Jay has been compiled. Please feel free to correct anything.

87

With Juri in the corner just sit at max mp tk range and have your fingers on mp and hp and just feint and abuse the fuck out of them XD.

Also T.Hawks that spam Condor Spire into 360 is like impossible :(, no joke you can’t even seismo the ****** when he approaches with Condor Spire.

88

What about back-dashing on reaction, then punish - that way you’re just out of his 360 range. I think I’ve used EX Burning Kick on occasion too…can’t remember if it traded though.

89

Just want to add to the balrog section if at the right spacing you can whiff punish dash punches (TAP?) on reaction with cr.hp > whatever

[media=youtube]O4kqyHcyIYI[/media]

@ 1.35

I’d probably say this is also the best distance to fight Rog at as you can react with EX seismo’s fairly consistantly

90

Ugh, I’ve been away, sorry guys. I swear, I’ll update this shit tomorrow lol.

91

I plan to add info about the affects of the 2nd Ultras, but I’m gonna need help making sure what I say is right. I’ll type up some stuff later, post it here and see what you guys think. I want to make sure it’s all correct before I add it to the sections.

92

Are you planning on updating the new characters soon? I’m having trouble punishing adon’s walldive kick. I can only block it.

93

its simple to beat wall dive kick

reaction s.hk (which is something i found out recently), and ex seismo can track all distances of wall dive, and if ur ballsy enoguh, ultra it…

94

Basically what Mikoal said.

I’m sorry, I’ve actually not being playing Viper recently, been learning Cammy and Juri, so I haven’t been checking the Viper forum very much, I am sorry. I will post the general Ultra 2 stuff.

95

vs Adon

I usually just ex seismo non-ex wall dive and crescent kicks (don’t know the name of the move lol), and I ultra EX walldive kicks since they always land right in front of you.

96

Guy is killing me. I can’t keep him out with Seismos, can’t non-IA BK or jumping RH cross up his tiny hitbox when he’s crouching, can’t anti-air him consistently with his weird jumping arc and elbow cross up, and I keep whiffing MP TK on him, since he’s so tiny :frowning:

I’ll take any advice. I end up playing crouching MP/MK footsies until he ambiguous cross up jumps, and at that range I feel forced to block. Honestly, I feel like I’m Dhalsim and he’s Viper and I can’t keep him out. Help!

97

^
I can see what’s effective against his elbow and jump arc, but beyond that, I have no clue about him, at all. Maybe someone else knows enough about him. So far, I’ve beaten Guys with standard stuff, get a knockdown, poke with cr.mk/cr.mp/cr.mk, ect.

98

Okay, so what exactly do I do against Guy. It seems elbow drop trades/beats FTK unless you do it at the peak of his height. Having a floaty jump and being able to stop his jumps short with elbow drop makes Seismo zoning irrelevant and he can safely pressure Viper most of the time. He can stay in the air quite a bit so it makes the footsie game also annoying if he’s jumping all over the place without having to worry about AA options too much.

I basically need to know what moves Guy has that are punishable and what are some reliable counters to his tactics. You can Focus his Elbow drop, run slide, and run overhead (unless its up close then its 2 hits and beats the focus) but Viper’s focus is so slow you have to dash out for safety instead of following through. I’m also wondering if close s.Forward could be used to beat his elbow drop pressure like when he does a block string then does the elbow drop right above you.

99

Alright, since another person is asking for Guy help, I’ll test some things out myself. These are all things I’ve tested and are subject to being wrong or only right in theory.

  • Guy has a tiny hitbox, keep cross-ups restricted to j.MK, BKs as low to the ground as possible.

  • s.MK stuffs elbow, throw, and crossup if they’re right on top of you, otherwise you get smacked. After s.MK, you can cross them up, meaty them, Seismo for free, etc, and the only thing he can really do is EX Tatsu, which is horribly risky.

  • EX Seismo beats his aerial shenanigans except for cross-up, but you have to time it right.

  • c.MP and EX Seismo beat all his run attempts except the EX version. Don’t try to TK stuff them, it’s extremely RPS if you do (overhead goes over LP TK, slide goes under MP TK, stop can bait out FP TK). If you block the overhead, you can get a free c.LK, s.LK, c.MP xx MP TK. If you block the slide, do whatever you want, including Ultra or FFF. If he stops, just whack him with whatever.

  • His s.MK beats all your ground normals and specials in priority except for far s.HP and I guess FP TK, if you want to risk it. Seismo him if he throws it out like a wall. His c.MP beats all your jump-in attacks, but the hitbox is in front of him when he does it and his body is a red target. If you keep getting stuffed for some reason on jump-in, try j.HP.

  • It can be tough playing the Seismo game against him. He can reach you from anywhere on the screen if you whiff one. Only throw non-feinted Seismos out once you have him scared, or you can lose from one mistake. You can’t jump at him with BKs predictably, you can be countered.

  • His only good GTFO move is EX Tatsu. It comes out in four frames, seems 100% safe once it comes out. EX Seismo can go through it perfectly, and he can rise into BK fire. I don’t know any good setups on his wakeup, I’d be glad to hear of any safe-jump setups or something to specifically hurt his wakeup game, a la Chun Li or Ryu.

  • Once you’re under pressure, wait it out. Guy thrives on pressure, and if you give him a Counter Hit, you’re going for a long-ass ride. FP TK and c.MP are your ways to stuff his attacks on the ground if you need to stop him, and be ready for for an elbow/air throw, which will beat your aerial moves. In my tests LP TK seems like a really good way to counter him once he jabs you a few times - it should stuff most everything, and put you over if he tries jumping at you. I’m going to test that out later. Stay on the ground and turtle your ass off once he’s in.

100

I did the same thing in the Ibuki thread so I’ll do it in this thread too. Viper’s matchups according to IPW for August.

Wins 6-4 vs: Sakura, Dan, Makoto, Hakan, Gen, Gouken, Cody, Claw, Dee Jay, Ibuki, Sagat, Seth, Dhalsim, Chun Li, Guile (from lowest tiered character to highest tiered character)
**
Even 5-5 vs:** T.Hawk, Guy, Fei, Adon, Dudley, Juri, Rose, Ryu, Rufus, Akuma (from lowest tiered character to highest)

Loses 4-6 vs: Dictator, Cammy, Abel, Boxer, E.Honda, Zangief, Blanka, El Fuerte, Ken (from highest tier to lowest tier)

Of course can’t take it too seriously but it’s something to look at. With this list we can at least be certain that Viper is still a strong character because she beats at least half the cast including 3 of the currently most dangerous characters at tournaments right now (Dhalsim, Chun and Guile). Unfortunately though she still loses to a lot of important characters like Dictator, Boxer and E.Honda. I personally think E.Honda is worse than 4-6 but yeah. It’s also laughable that IPW still thinks she goes even with Rufus. Rufus, Honda and Boxer have to be her absolute most poo poo matchups.